Episode 1
Detroit 75 Kitchen with cohost Lisa Robbin Young
On this first episode of season 3, Leela and Lisa chat about the great work Chef Mike and his brother Ahmad are doing with their sandwich truck/shop Detroit 75 Kitchen: taking good care of their people, growing their business, making strategic choices and more
Learn more at:
Detroit 75 Kitchen, Detroit75Kitchen.com
Leela Sinha, aleixianoconsulting.com
Lisa Robbin Young, lisarobbinyoung.com
Leela's Patreon: patreon.com/LeelaS
more details for Detroit 75 Kitchen
original location at
4800 West Fort Street, Detroit, MI, 48209
and eat-in dining at
32275 Stephenson Hwy, Madison Heights, MI 48071
Transcript
like the moving into Madison Heights because that's where the money's at.
Speaker:But it also means that in order to make those choices,
Speaker:other choices had to be made.
Speaker:So that's why I'm like,
Speaker:I think it's important that we at least point that out.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:In the world of business,
Speaker:there are a lot of choices.
Speaker:There are a lot of lies,
Speaker:there are a lot of shortcuts,
Speaker:there are a lot of people taking those shortcuts and telling those lies.
Speaker:And then there are the people who choose to do it right.
Speaker:At a time when so often profit is king,
Speaker:those people are increasingly rare.
Speaker:But when those people are in charge,
Speaker:good things happen.
Speaker:Fortunately, some of those people are business owners,
Speaker:some of those people are bosses,
Speaker:and we are here to showcase the best ones.
Speaker:I'm your host, Lela Sinha,
Speaker:with co-host Lisa Robin Young.
Speaker:Let's get started.
Speaker:Hi, everyone.
Speaker:Welcome.
Speaker:This is really exciting because it is the third season
Speaker:of my Power Pivot podcast.
Speaker:This is episode one,
Speaker:so we're just getting started again.
Speaker:And the season theme is best bosses.
Speaker:So I just keep seeing all these businesses online
Speaker:that are doing things right and I want to lift them up.
Speaker:Today's topic is Detroit 75 Kitchen,
Speaker:which I came across on Facebook Reels.
Speaker:And I'm delighted to have you all joining us.
Speaker:This is also a new era for us because,
Speaker:one, I am video recording, which I have not done before.
Speaker:This is our first run at a video option for the podcast,
Speaker:although we will also be publishing it, as usual,
Speaker:in podcast places if you, like me,
Speaker:tend to just lean into the audio.
Speaker:And this is the third season of this podcast
Speaker:where we talk about using our power for good.
Speaker:When I started this, I was thinking about
Speaker:how everybody talks about power is evil, power is bad.
Speaker:And I was like, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah."
Speaker:We have to talk about how we could use power well.
Speaker:Otherwise, when we get power, we don't handle it well.
Speaker:We mishandle it or we shy away from it.
Speaker:Or we do bad things because that's the only model of power
Speaker:that we've seen or thought about up until that moment.
Speaker:So instead of allowing ourselves to do that,
Speaker:let's imagine forward and let's take a look at the world
Speaker:and find people who are good examples
Speaker:of already doing that well.
Speaker:So especially and specifically in the business world,
Speaker:the financial, but especially the business world,
Speaker:I'm really interested in these questions
Speaker:because I don't think we're gonna get out
Speaker:of capitalism this week.
Speaker:I just don't.
Speaker:For better, I know some people who are like,
Speaker:"Yes, I'm a proud capitalist, but not proud of all
Speaker:the things that capitalism does."
Speaker:And I know other people who are like,
Speaker:"Burn it all to the ground."
Speaker:But one way or the other,
Speaker:we have to deal with the fact that here we are right now
Speaker:and what can we do to make the best
Speaker:of the situation we're in.
Speaker:So in each episode, we'll be highlighting
Speaker:a different business that I have run across
Speaker:or Lisa's run across or that you all have sent to us
Speaker:that has been really doing things well
Speaker:in one of a number of different axes
Speaker:or ideally all of them, like taking good care of your people,
Speaker:taking good care of your founders,
Speaker:taking good care of the communities that you interact with
Speaker:or something else that I haven't thought of.
Speaker:Why not all of it?
Speaker:Making good moves for the world, maybe all three.
Speaker:So I'm super excited because I get to do this
Speaker:with a co-host, which I've also never done.
Speaker:This is Lisa Robin Young.
Speaker:She is from Detroit, is that correct?
Speaker:I'm actually from Flint about an hour north of Detroit,
Speaker:but Michigan's my home state.
Speaker:Okay, and she has experience in all kinds of things.
Speaker:We do similar kinds of work with businesses,
Speaker:helping them with their internal infrastructure and systems,
Speaker:helping create those systems that maybe support
Speaker:that goodness in the world through the business.
Speaker:And she and I have known each other
Speaker:for a number of years online,
Speaker:and then she had the good grace to move to my town.
Speaker:And so now we're both in the same place
Speaker:and we got to meet up in person a bit ago
Speaker:and had such great chemistry
Speaker:that when she said she was interested in co-hosting,
Speaker:I said, absolutely, this is gonna be great.
Speaker:So I'll give you the floor
Speaker:to introduce yourself a little more,
Speaker:and then we'll move on.
Speaker:Cool, so my background is twofold.
Speaker:One is performing arts, so creative entrepreneurship,
Speaker:but also business.
Speaker:I have been a consultant for businesses
Speaker:of all shapes and sizes.
Speaker:Coming up on 20 plus years now,
Speaker:been in the online world for more than 30 years.
Speaker:And in that time, seen a lot, done a lot,
Speaker:helped a lot of people.
Speaker:My goal has always been profitable, sustainable business,
Speaker:building a business that works for how you're wired to work
Speaker:and supporting organizations to have strategies
Speaker:that work with the capacities that they have, right?
Speaker:So that they can grow in healthy ways.
Speaker:And I don't know what else I need to say.
Speaker:I've written a couple of books.
Speaker:You can find all of those details on the interwebs.
Speaker:I'm an internet dinosaur, I've been around forever.
Speaker:But I'm really excited to be able to talk shop,
Speaker:as it were, about these different businesses
Speaker:that you've brought forward.
Speaker:When you put out the call for potential co-hosts,
Speaker:I've never done the co-hosting gig either.
Speaker:I've always done a solo show.
Speaker:My show ran for 10 years, and it was just me
Speaker:talking into the camera about this, that, and everything else.
Speaker:And so to be able to have a conversation
Speaker:with another person on a regular basis
Speaker:about the things that we're seeing,
Speaker:the patterns that we're finding,
Speaker:because that's really who I am.
Speaker:I'm a pattern finder.
Speaker:And deconstructing some of that
Speaker:so that our audience can then say,
Speaker:okay, here's how I can apply that to my business.
Speaker:Or here's what I can take away from that
Speaker:that's gonna be impactful for me.
Speaker:That's the stuff that really gets my Jesus way.
Speaker:That's the stuff that really gets me excited.
Speaker:And I love that we are starting with a business
Speaker:that's brightened my hometown backyard.
Speaker:So thanks for having me.
Speaker:I'm so delighted you're here.
Speaker:And when we were trying to pick which business
Speaker:to highlight first, because I have,
Speaker:I've been thinking about this since like December,
Speaker:I have a list.
Speaker:But I said to Lisa, hey, so what do you think?
Speaker:And she's like, well, I'm from Michigan.
Speaker:And so I said, great, that's, there we go.
Speaker:That's the thing.
Speaker:So Detroit 75 Kitchen, they build themselves
Speaker:like their online presence is very down to earth.
Speaker:Their line on their homepage is a proper sandwich shop
Speaker:owned by two brothers.
Speaker:It doesn't get much more basic than that.
Speaker:But I think that's where the basic ends.
Speaker:Indeed.
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:I mean, just scouring the media about this business,
Speaker:you can tell that Mike's in the kitchen and,
Speaker:what's the other brothers name?
Speaker:Ahmad.
Speaker:Ahmad is the business guy, right?
Speaker:He went to Wharton School.
Speaker:He went to U of M's Ross School.
Speaker:He is very, very business savvy.
Speaker:And you look at the stories that they're telling online,
Speaker:and you look at the original starting history.
Speaker:So this company actually started as a food truck
Speaker:in the parking lot of the truck stop
Speaker:that their family owned.
Speaker:And it's kind of grown from there,
Speaker:but they still have the flagship store situated
Speaker:beautifully between the Ambassador Bridge
Speaker:and the new Gordie Howe Bridge that's almost built
Speaker:to take care of the people in that community
Speaker:and to serve that traffic.
Speaker:So you've got a lot of truckers coming in.
Speaker:You've got, they're right next door to the police station.
Speaker:So they've got good security, right?
Speaker:Like there's a lot of really smart business decisions
Speaker:that were made in getting this company off the ground.
Speaker:And once it got off the ground,
Speaker:they did some really neat things
Speaker:that have now positioned them to be way more
Speaker:than just a basic sandwich shop,
Speaker:even though they're still serving out of the same,
Speaker:you know, food truck business model that they've been doing,
Speaker:they have branched into some other things.
Speaker:So I'm excited that we're gonna get to talk
Speaker:about some of that too.
Speaker:Yeah, and you can hire that food truck
Speaker:to come to your location now
Speaker:if you want the whole food truck experience,
Speaker:which is one of those really smart things
Speaker:that I think they've done is they've looked
Speaker:at what the market needs.
Speaker:And they've said, how can we leverage the cache
Speaker:of this particular business?
Speaker:Because they've gotten a lot of attention.
Speaker:You know, they say they had some
Speaker:just great lucky breaks early on.
Speaker:And so people, at least in the area,
Speaker:know about Detroit 75 Kitchen.
Speaker:Like they know, they built a name for themselves.
Speaker:They're not just another food truck.
Speaker:Right, and if you look at a map, right?
Speaker:If you pull up Google Maps and you look at
Speaker:where this establishment is located,
Speaker:it is a somewhat industrial space,
Speaker:but there are food joints populated around this area, right?
Speaker:So there are other sandwich shops.
Speaker:There are other burger joints.
Speaker:There are other types of food
Speaker:in and around this establishment.
Speaker:But they have done something that's not only allowed them
Speaker:to become a recognized name in Michigan,
Speaker:they've become a recognized name across the country, right?
Speaker:One of the top, I think the number three food truck
Speaker:in America, like one of the top 50 restaurants in America.
Speaker:I mean, like really good food, a really great reputation,
Speaker:but they're also doing good for their employees.
Speaker:Right, so what they say is, from the beginning,
Speaker:this is a quote from their website,
Speaker:from the beginning, we built Detroit 75 Kitchen
Speaker:around one belief, none of the growth matters
Speaker:if the food is not good enough
Speaker:to make people go out of their way for it.
Speaker:Mike's at the standard in the kitchen,
Speaker:Ahmad helped shape the direction of the brand
Speaker:and the business behind it.
Speaker:No shortcuts, no gimmicks, just real work,
Speaker:consistency and respect for the craft.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:And it really shows in, I think the thing
Speaker:that was most telling for me in the videos
Speaker:that you sent me to watch,
Speaker:you're talking about employees in food service
Speaker:who've been there 10 years, 12 years.
Speaker:That is pretty unprecedented in the food services industry
Speaker:where the turnover is like two to three months.
Speaker:I get goosebumps when you say, I'm like,
Speaker:oh, 12 years, and they don't sound mad about it.
Speaker:Right, yeah, they're happy to be there
Speaker:and it's just another day in close quarters
Speaker:in their tiny little food truck kitchen.
Speaker:And this isn't like a one or a two man operation.
Speaker:There are four or five people, six people
Speaker:inside that truck moving around, working the line,
Speaker:doing the things that they need to do
Speaker:to keep the business happening.
Speaker:And when you have employees that are there
Speaker:for five years, 10 years, 12 years,
Speaker:that's institutional knowledge.
Speaker:And sometimes you don't think about,
Speaker:well, it's a food truck,
Speaker:what do you mean institutional knowledge?
Speaker:Okay, all those recipes become body memory.
Speaker:All of the settings become body memory.
Speaker:All of the faces that you see regularly
Speaker:when they're coming to the counter to order
Speaker:and you build those relationships with those buyers,
Speaker:but that's body memory.
Speaker:Oh yeah, you always order this sandwich.
Speaker:And that's an efficiency that you can't duplicate
Speaker:when you have to hire new people into your organization
Speaker:every two to four months because people are quitting
Speaker:because these--
Speaker:Because you're actually in the right.
Speaker:Right, you're not treating them right, yeah, essentially.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker:Yeah, and what's interesting to me too
Speaker:is that most people don't think about it,
Speaker:I won't say most people,
Speaker:most people when they think about
Speaker:sort of food truck level food service,
Speaker:don't think about the need to build a tight team.
Speaker:But if you've ever worked back of house
Speaker:in a higher end kitchen,
Speaker:you know how important the relationships in the kitchen
Speaker:are to the quality of the food that comes out of the kitchen.
Speaker:And if you can keep your food truck people
Speaker:in the food truck for eight years, 12 years,
Speaker:then you get that same level of intricate mesh
Speaker:that produces quality, that produces,
Speaker:oh, I know what you're gonna need and we're in the weeds
Speaker:and I'm just gonna throw this down the counter at you
Speaker:and you're gonna catch it and we're gonna keep going.
Speaker:You can't do that with people who are brand new, you can't.
Speaker:Right, right.
Speaker:Yeah, the chemistry's not there,
Speaker:the institutional knowledge isn't there,
Speaker:the rapport is not there.
Speaker:The loyalty's not there.
Speaker:The loyalty's not there.
Speaker:And I think that's the thing that's the most telling.
Speaker:You don't stay at a job for eight to 12 years
Speaker:just because you need a job.
Speaker:I mean, you do, you have to, but--
Speaker:Well, I mean, not in food service.
Speaker:Not food service.
Speaker:There are plenty of other places to go.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Like even on that street, even on Ford Street,
Speaker:there are plenty of other restaurants
Speaker:that they could go work at.
Speaker:Why are they choosing Detroit 75 over Smashburger
Speaker:or one of the other joints up and down that strip
Speaker:is because of the living wage.
Speaker:It's because of the way they treat their employees.
Speaker:It's because of knowing they're gonna get their weekends off
Speaker:for the most part.
Speaker:I mean, those kinds of quality of life issues,
Speaker:especially when you're working in food service,
Speaker:are as important as the pay in a lot of respects
Speaker:because food service joints are all over the place, right?
Speaker:Like there's plenty of supply.
Speaker:You know, how hard you can take care of them.
Speaker:The mechanics of working in food service,
Speaker:the mechanics of like cooking something
Speaker:are not that different place to place to place.
Speaker:That's why you can go to culinary school
Speaker:and then go work somewhere.
Speaker:But the skills are maybe a little bit more detailed
Speaker:or refined if you go to culinary school,
Speaker:but you can learn them on the job just as well.
Speaker:And people do just as well.
Speaker:And so you have a highly mobile workforce.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And when you have a highly,
Speaker:sort of like during the dot com boom
Speaker:when you had like a whole bunch of coders,
Speaker:that's less true now,
Speaker:but during the dot com boom
Speaker:when they were like all these coders
Speaker:and they were highly mobile
Speaker:and companies were not as good as chef Mike
Speaker:at figuring out how to hang on to their people.
Speaker:Well, I think too,
Speaker:a lot can be said for just the ethos of these owners, right?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Mike's whole management style in the kitchen
Speaker:speaks volumes to why these people are so loyal
Speaker:in the first place.
Speaker:Yes, they're being paid a living wage, sure.
Speaker:But what are some of the other things
Speaker:that they're doing well
Speaker:that make this a standout business
Speaker:compared to some of the other joints,
Speaker:even just right in their own vicinity?
Speaker:I mean, I think fundamentally,
Speaker:chef Mike, at least from his social,
Speaker:obviously we don't know.
Speaker:We're not in his kitchen.
Speaker:Right, we're looking at the highlight reels,
Speaker:but from the highlight reels,
Speaker:here's what we're seeing, right?
Speaker:Yeah, but from the reels,
Speaker:literally the Facebook reels that he's posting,
Speaker:what we're seeing is that fundamentally,
Speaker:he thinks of his staff as people
Speaker:and he treats them as people.
Speaker:He treats them the way you would want to be treated.
Speaker:He treats them the way he would presumably want
Speaker:his relatives to be treated,
Speaker:the way he would want to be treated.
Speaker:And so, for example, he has one real where he's like,
Speaker:why are you charging your staff to eat
Speaker:while they're on the job
Speaker:if they're in a restaurant?
Speaker:That is absurd, don't do that.
Speaker:Just let them eat food off the menu.
Speaker:Which it seems obvious to me,
Speaker:but I know from my own experience
Speaker:and from talking to other people in food service
Speaker:that it absolutely is not normal.
Speaker:No, especially if you're looking at large food services.
Speaker:So there is someone in my family
Speaker:who's currently working for a major fast food retail chain
Speaker:and they have a cap.
Speaker:You can order X dollars worth of food off the menu
Speaker:and we'll cover it, but beyond that,
Speaker:you have to pay for it yourself.
Speaker:And I understand you shrink and loss
Speaker:and you don't want somebody coming in
Speaker:and ordering food for 25 people
Speaker:and then taking it out of the kitchen.
Speaker:I get that, but I'm sorry, if I want a hamburger today
Speaker:and I don't want to eat the same hamburger
Speaker:I've always eaten, maybe today I want it
Speaker:a couple of extra somethings
Speaker:or maybe a different kind of meat on my sandwich
Speaker:and you're like, well, that's gonna cost you $2 more.
Speaker:That's ridiculous.
Speaker:Especially when you're paying someone
Speaker:somewhere between 7.25 and 10 bucks an hour.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah, you're already driving a revenue up
Speaker:by keeping employee costs down,
Speaker:continuing to drive that down even further
Speaker:and making them take it out of their already small paycheck
Speaker:to cover the difference on their food
Speaker:does not instill loyalty,
Speaker:does not make them want to come back to work the next day.
Speaker:It doesn't make them feel cared for.
Speaker:I mean, it's two bucks out of the entire revenue
Speaker:of the entire day, let's say you have 15 employees.
Speaker:That's 30 bucks.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:That's 30 bucks.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Just pay them.
Speaker:You're probably gonna go out to dinner
Speaker:and spend 30 bucks on one entree somewhere this month.
Speaker:Like just pay them and feed them.
Speaker:And it's amazing to me, my mom used to say,
Speaker:dropping dollars to pick up dimes, right?
Speaker:And we see that so often and I get that,
Speaker:especially in the food industry,
Speaker:margins can be super, super tight.
Speaker:I get it.
Speaker:And if you're looking at this through the lens
Speaker:that Chef Mike is looking at it through,
Speaker:like you get the money on the back end
Speaker:because you get the value on the front end, right?
Speaker:From the people that are working with you.
Speaker:And I think the other thing that I really appreciated was
Speaker:Mike's in the kitchen too, right?
Speaker:Mike, like he's like, this is my kitchen.
Speaker:I run this kitchen, but I work in this kitchen.
Speaker:I'm making sandwiches too.
Speaker:I am training people too.
Speaker:I am doing, my elbows are right there
Speaker:rubbing alongside yours as we work together.
Speaker:And I think that's also a very important piece
Speaker:that gets overlooked because when your founder owner
Speaker:steps out of the day to day of the business,
Speaker:things can change, right?
Speaker:The energy can change in the space.
Speaker:And sometimes that will prevent a business
Speaker:from growing the way that it otherwise could
Speaker:because now he's an overseer and now he becomes
Speaker:like slave driver or whatever.
Speaker:I mean, that kind of energy, right?
Speaker:I've heard that term used.
Speaker:And here he's just another one of the guys,
Speaker:another one of the crew on the line
Speaker:working another Tuesday, making sandwiches
Speaker:for the truckers that are coming up on the freeway.
Speaker:And you see it in the face of his employees.
Speaker:They all know they're in this together.
Speaker:They all know they've got each other's facts
Speaker:and you can see it on their faces.
Speaker:There's nobody in those videos who's like,
Speaker:I just wanna keep my head down
Speaker:and get to the end of my shit.
Speaker:And don't talk about me.
Speaker:Right, like I don't wanna.
Speaker:They're all like, we love it here, it's great.
Speaker:And yes, maybe that's the highlight reel,
Speaker:but my senses and all the footage that we've looked at,
Speaker:that is the norm, not the exception.
Speaker:Yeah, I don't think he would be able to throw on this
Speaker:camera and just film if that weren't the norm.
Speaker:Because I can tell you how much adjusting I have to do
Speaker:in my house, in my door with a door shut office, right?
Speaker:Just to get ready to film.
Speaker:I can't imagine trying to film in a kitchen
Speaker:if there was something I was trying to hide.
Speaker:Right, exactly, exactly.
Speaker:A food truck does not give you a lot of room
Speaker:to hide much of anything.
Speaker:That is the truth.
Speaker:It's a long skinny galley kitchen
Speaker:and everything has to be cheek by jowl.
Speaker:It's like cooking in a boat.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:And they've done a really great job
Speaker:of expanding the outside area
Speaker:to really transform a gas station parking lot.
Speaker:I mean, that's really what it is.
Speaker:Like they've really, and this goes to a mod skill set,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:He's all about the brand experience.
Speaker:How are people gonna talk about this?
Speaker:I was reading some older press where he was like,
Speaker:we wanna do merchandising and we wanna do all these things.
Speaker:And like fast forward five or six years,
Speaker:I'm like they're doing those things, right?
Speaker:All of the things that they said they wanted to do,
Speaker:they're rolling out.
Speaker:And the thing that I like most is
Speaker:they're taking these small bets, right?
Speaker:Like they're doing these small experiments.
Speaker:They started and they were like,
Speaker:we are not open on the weekends.
Speaker:Which historically for a company like that
Speaker:would be like the busiest time.
Speaker:Saturdays and Sundays, everybody's out,
Speaker:let's go get some food.
Speaker:And they're like, nope, our people need the time off.
Speaker:And they've done pop-up locations in a couple of places.
Speaker:Not a permanent place,
Speaker:not a we're gonna be here from eight to five every day.
Speaker:It's like, we're gonna show up for a while
Speaker:and see how it goes.
Speaker:And those kinds of experiments have allowed them to go,
Speaker:okay, we can open up a real brick and mortar location here
Speaker:based on the data that we've collected
Speaker:from these experiments.
Speaker:And in an era where we have a lot of people
Speaker:who are coming into entrepreneurship,
Speaker:throwing out their shingle and the stakes are so high,
Speaker:they've gotta make it work like right now,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Being able to see other companies say,
Speaker:let's experiment, let's not rush this.
Speaker:Let's take our time and do it well.
Speaker:Allows these people coming into business to go,
Speaker:there is a different way to do this.
Speaker:One that doesn't have to put a lot of pressure on us.
Speaker:One that doesn't have to create a lot.
Speaker:I mean, they started it in their parents parking lot
Speaker:for crying out loud, right?
Speaker:That was an experiment to just see what can we do.
Speaker:And it snowballed into something bigger
Speaker:because quality was at the foundation of it from the start.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I think that that speaks to the way
Speaker:that the DNA of a company impacts the company's culture
Speaker:and behavior going forward.
Speaker:So I talk in my work a lot about systems theory,
Speaker:which basically says that when a system,
Speaker:which is just a bunch of people doing something together,
Speaker:when a system is impacted in some way,
Speaker:that impact carries forward
Speaker:unless something happens to actually change it.
Speaker:So the classic in psychology is of course,
Speaker:the alcoholic family system where you have,
Speaker:somebody was alcoholic in 1853
Speaker:and it affected everyone's behavior.
Speaker:And one of the things it did was it made everybody not drink
Speaker:like we are just not a family that drinks after that.
Speaker:So through the 1800s into the 1900s
Speaker:and then into the 2000s, right?
Speaker:This family doesn't drink.
Speaker:They don't really know why anymore.
Speaker:They don't remember the behavior,
Speaker:but they're all still shaping their behavior
Speaker:according to that thing that happened
Speaker:to the system in 1853.
Speaker:And in this case, they started as an experiment.
Speaker:And so the beauty is that they are continuing
Speaker:as experimenters because that's how they started.
Speaker:And so it's in their DNA.
Speaker:It's in the way that the system knows how to move
Speaker:and understands itself.
Speaker:And that's gorgeous.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And from a perspective of capacity, right?
Speaker:It allows them to stress test without collapsing
Speaker:the health and wellbeing of the business itself.
Speaker:And I think as a culture, a business culture,
Speaker:we hear a lot about fail fast and fail often.
Speaker:And it's like, can we just avoid some of the failure
Speaker:because there's a lot of cost involved in failing.
Speaker:Right, you could fail, but you don't have to.
Speaker:Yeah, if going a little bit slower means we don't fail,
Speaker:why don't we do that instead?
Speaker:Why don't we take the time to step back and go,
Speaker:what's really going to serve us?
Speaker:What's really going to serve our right audience?
Speaker:What's really going to serve our people?
Speaker:And how do we find the nexus point for all of those things
Speaker:instead of let's just throw something out there
Speaker:and see what comes of it.
Speaker:And then we gotta iterate again and again and again.
Speaker:And then we're in this anxious energy
Speaker:of we've gotta find something that works instead of,
Speaker:we've got the breathing room to make some decisions
Speaker:and try something without it causing collapse.
Speaker:Right, and I just want to take a brief detour here
Speaker:that I didn't put in our notes, I'm sorry.
Speaker:But as we're talking, I'm thinking about,
Speaker:both of us live in Portland, Oregon.
Speaker:And here in Portland, specifically around food trucks,
Speaker:we have this thing that I haven't really seen anywhere else.
Speaker:There may exist somewhere else,
Speaker:but here instead of having food trucks
Speaker:just willy nilly wherever on the street,
Speaker:what we have is these things called food truck pods
Speaker:where somebody will build out a parking lot
Speaker:with often, more often now than it used to be
Speaker:because of regulations, a little bit of drainage
Speaker:and a little bit of sort of infrastructure
Speaker:for each food truck.
Speaker:And then they all park side by side
Speaker:in this what is essentially a souped up parking lot.
Speaker:And then people can come and sit and eat.
Speaker:Usually they put out some tables.
Speaker:Sometimes now there's a building that has washrooms
Speaker:and sometimes alcohol being served
Speaker:because it can't be served outdoors.
Speaker:And it gives restaurants exactly that kind of flexibility.
Speaker:So if you have a restaurant idea,
Speaker:you don't have to get up all of the funding
Speaker:and it's a lot of funding to like rent
Speaker:and build out an actual brick and mortar space.
Speaker:You need to get yourself a truck and they're always for sale
Speaker:and fit it out with your stuff, get some latex paint,
Speaker:paint the outside and go.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That agility in experimentation, especially right now,
Speaker:especially in the midst of all the changes
Speaker:that we're experiencing right now economically,
Speaker:those agile companies are the ones that have the ability
Speaker:to weather these storms because they have some flex, right?
Speaker:Because they're equipped to say,
Speaker:well, we're not gonna try all the things.
Speaker:And one of the things that I talk about
Speaker:when a company is trying to grow
Speaker:is something called the expansion reflex.
Speaker:Do something, anything, everything, let's go, right?
Speaker:And when you have a lot of resources,
Speaker:that's a thing that you can do.
Speaker:You can throw a lot of spaghetti.
Speaker:But when you don't have a lot of resources,
Speaker:there's still this urge to do something,
Speaker:fix something, anything, oh my God, let's try that.
Speaker:Let's try this, let's try.
Speaker:And then what ends up happening is
Speaker:you're diluting the resources
Speaker:and you're spreading yourself so thin
Speaker:that your system is going to collapse.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And baking experimentation into the business model
Speaker:allows you to have a budget for R&D,
Speaker:for lack of a better way to describe it, right?
Speaker:We've got a budget to try some things,
Speaker:but we're gonna protect the golden goose
Speaker:that is the core business model.
Speaker:And we're not gonna drain our resources from there
Speaker:because that's the thing that keeps the ship afloat.
Speaker:Right, and it can be something as simple,
Speaker:again, going back to the concrete example we're working with,
Speaker:it can be something as simple as,
Speaker:Chef Mike has another video where he's like,
Speaker:"You don't need a huge menu.
Speaker:You just do a few things well."
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And when you're a food truck,
Speaker:you almost have permission to do that
Speaker:because you're operating small and lean
Speaker:and everybody knows that.
Speaker:It's obvious from looking at your setup.
Speaker:So if you don't have 85 things on the menu,
Speaker:of course you don't.
Speaker:Where are you gonna store all that food?
Speaker:It's a food truck.
Speaker:It all has to fit in there somewhere.
Speaker:That's right, that's right.
Speaker:And the thing that's really super smart
Speaker:about streamlining the menu
Speaker:and proof that he's speaking from experience,
Speaker:and again, for those of you who are in the audience,
Speaker:we don't know these folks.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Everything we're talking about is stuff
Speaker:that we have seen from the outside.
Speaker:I did a ton of Googling when I was researching this company.
Speaker:If you go to their Google page
Speaker:and you look at the pictures of the menu,
Speaker:you can see that the menu has changed over the years.
Speaker:They had more items and they started
Speaker:to whittle some of them away.
Speaker:They bring something out.
Speaker:They take it away.
Speaker:This is the value of experimentation
Speaker:because it allows you to get feedback in real time
Speaker:from the people who are trying out what's on the menu,
Speaker:but it also allows you to cut the stuff
Speaker:that isn't giving you the return on investment
Speaker:that you need.
Speaker:Whereas maybe three doors down
Speaker:at the restaurant down the street,
Speaker:it sells like gangbusters.
Speaker:It's not selling for you.
Speaker:You can cut it and let them go buy it over there
Speaker:and know that your core audience
Speaker:of the things that you do well
Speaker:that you've become known for,
Speaker:like there's shawarma wrap.
Speaker:Nobody else around there's doing that.
Speaker:And it sells well, so it's still on the menu after 10 years.
Speaker:Right, and it probably doesn't sell that well.
Speaker:Like if somebody else nearby tried to do it,
Speaker:everybody who knows the restaurant knows the location.
Speaker:Be like, why are you doing that?
Speaker:Go to Detroit 75, they're the best one on the block.
Speaker:End story.
Speaker:And so I think letting specialization happen
Speaker:is also a really important thing for us,
Speaker:especially when we feel like we're in a tight market, right?
Speaker:When you feel like you're in competition with other people.
Speaker:Part of it is just vibes,
Speaker:especially in businesses like your business and my business.
Speaker:It's just who's the best fit.
Speaker:But some of it is people become known
Speaker:for a particular kind of thing
Speaker:or particular piece of the pie.
Speaker:And it's much better to be like, oh, we sell shawarma,
Speaker:but that guy down the street makes the best donuts.
Speaker:We're not even gonna, like we don't have a fryer.
Speaker:We're not starting that up.
Speaker:Go down and get your donut over there
Speaker:where the donuts are excellent because that's all they do.
Speaker:Yeah, and that is the opportunity
Speaker:to take advantage of the long tail, right?
Speaker:Like there are diehard fans of vinyl records
Speaker:who will never buy audio in another format
Speaker:if they can avoid it, right?
Speaker:And there's a long tail audience for vinyl,
Speaker:so much so that vinyl's making a comeback, right?
Speaker:And in an environment like this
Speaker:where there's all kinds of food
Speaker:and you're into Detroit for crying out loud,
Speaker:so there's really all kinds of food
Speaker:because it is a multicultural melting pot
Speaker:of deliciousness, right?
Speaker:So why are we going to try and make something for everyone
Speaker:because we're not gonna be able to compete well.
Speaker:Instead, let's look at what are some things
Speaker:that we can do uniquely,
Speaker:like everybody's got chicken sandwich,
Speaker:how do we do ours differently?
Speaker:What makes ours worth coming back for?
Speaker:And that was one of the things that I saw
Speaker:on their website was we wanna do things
Speaker:that make people want to come back, right?
Speaker:Make people want to be here for the long haul.
Speaker:So you get people coming off an airplane,
Speaker:coming straight from the airport to the kitchen
Speaker:so that they can have a sandwich
Speaker:with their luggage in tow, right?
Speaker:Truckers are coming off the freeway,
Speaker:pulling up to get gas and they're walking over
Speaker:to get a sandwich, and now they make this the stop
Speaker:when they come off the freeway coming over from Canada
Speaker:because they want that sandwich.
Speaker:They want that food, they wanna be there.
Speaker:Right, they're thinking about that sandwich
Speaker:as they're sitting in line at customs.
Speaker:That's right, that's right, that's right.
Speaker:And that doesn't happen when you have food that's fine.
Speaker:Right, and it doesn't happen
Speaker:when you have food that's generic, right?
Speaker:It has to be excellent, but it also has to be interesting
Speaker:or specific enough.
Speaker:And I think that that's true across businesses, right?
Speaker:If you have something that's interesting and specific enough,
Speaker:then people will come to you
Speaker:for that interesting, specific enough thing.
Speaker:Let me tell you a story about a notebook I saw online
Speaker:just the other day.
Speaker:I have a sort of a growing fountain pen thing.
Speaker:And I'm trying to find the right notebook
Speaker:for me to really get in my groove about it.
Speaker:And that's a little tricky
Speaker:because fountain pen ink is a little finicky.
Speaker:And I saw the other day an ad for a notebook
Speaker:that instead of having printed ruled lines,
Speaker:it had watermarked lines.
Speaker:So when you're writing, you can see them,
Speaker:but as the writing goes onto the page,
Speaker:the contrast changes in such a way
Speaker:that your eyes don't really perceive the lines anymore.
Speaker:So you get the advantage of the lines
Speaker:for keeping your writing organized.
Speaker:And then when you're looking back at it,
Speaker:if you have diagrams or whatever,
Speaker:like it doesn't interfere with your viewing of the,
Speaker:and I thought that sounds like the perfect solution.
Speaker:So it sold at like 10 shops, including SF MoMA,
Speaker:the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art gift shop.
Speaker:And I was like, oh, well,
Speaker:that's not a hopeful sign for the pricing.
Speaker:And then I, so I finally called a stationery shop in Seattle
Speaker:that has it because that was the nearest place.
Speaker:And they were like, we do have one.
Speaker:I'm double checking because it's marked $79.
Speaker:And I was like, yeah, that's not an amount of money.
Speaker:I like, I wouldn't want to write in a notebook.
Speaker:If I spent $79 on it, I think I wouldn't be able
Speaker:to bring myself to write in it.
Speaker:Oh, see, I would have to like go someplace special
Speaker:to write in that book.
Speaker:It was like my ceremonial writing book, right?
Speaker:But I would also have stuff like ceremonial brain
Speaker:that these days I don't really achieve.
Speaker:I feel that, I feel that, I feel that.
Speaker:But that brings up a good question
Speaker:or a good point about pricing.
Speaker:Because in my research around this company,
Speaker:their pricing is significantly higher
Speaker:than what you're finding in the neighborhood around them.
Speaker:And I think they can get away with that
Speaker:for a couple of reasons.
Speaker:One, because they've made it a destination location,
Speaker:they've made it an attraction in and of itself
Speaker:so people are willing to pay a little more
Speaker:for the branding and the prestige of being in their space
Speaker:and ordering their food.
Speaker:The other thing that I think is because of the quality
Speaker:of the ingredients that they're using,
Speaker:that's gonna cost more.
Speaker:Because they're paying their people a living wage,
Speaker:it's gonna cost more.
Speaker:I think it may even feel-- Because they're halal,
Speaker:that's gonna cost more.
Speaker:Right, and I think I said to you in the email
Speaker:that I sent to you, they're charging Portland prices
Speaker:in Detroit.
Speaker:And that is not a small difference.
Speaker:And you're talking about, and I gotta pull up,
Speaker:I gotta pull up my charts now, my charts and my diagrams,
Speaker:because I looked at the median income households
Speaker:just for comparison's sake, right?
Speaker:So you're talking about the median household income
Speaker:in Detroit is about 40 grand.
Speaker:In Portland, it's more than double that, like 90 grand.
Speaker:The per capita income in Detroit, about 24,000.
Speaker:In Portland, 57,000.
Speaker:Persons in poverty, 32% in Detroit, 12% in Portland.
Speaker:So that also tells me that they earn as much as they want
Speaker:to be serving their community, there's a portion
Speaker:of their community that they have priced out.
Speaker:They have made an intentional choice to price out.
Speaker:Now, that's not right or wrong, good or bad
Speaker:in the context of I have a business, these are the goals
Speaker:and objectives that I want to achieve, right?
Speaker:And we also have to acknowledge that
Speaker:because we are in capitalism, we have to make trade offs
Speaker:and choices, right?
Speaker:Do I charge what everybody else around me is charging,
Speaker:but then that means I have to lower the rate of pay
Speaker:for my people, which means I'm gonna have the kind
Speaker:of turnover that they're having at their places.
Speaker:And I'm not gonna be an integrity as a business owner,
Speaker:like I'm not, I'm gonna feel out of integrity there.
Speaker:Or do I raise those prices, create a quality experience
Speaker:for everyone connected to it, me, my staff,
Speaker:our customers, et cetera, and recognize that that means
Speaker:there are going to be some people who can't afford
Speaker:to come to us, even in our own community, right?
Speaker:We have to make those decisions as business owners.
Speaker:And one of the things that I think I would applaud them
Speaker:for is they've also, when they open up their new
Speaker:brick and mortar location, they opened up
Speaker:in Madison Heights.
Speaker:Madison Heights has substantially higher incomes
Speaker:and still has the same kind of traffic that they would get.
Speaker:And now Madison Heights is just a Detroit suburb,
Speaker:so it's not like they've gone so far away
Speaker:that it's forever away, but it's a strategic move
Speaker:to go where the money's at for the audience
Speaker:that they want to attract.
Speaker:So I think you get to have both in that respect, right?
Speaker:Like we get to continue to serve the people
Speaker:that we built this company for, and we can take advantage
Speaker:of an audience that has more disposable income
Speaker:so that we can have a brick and mortar location
Speaker:that's open year round and is open for one shift
Speaker:on Saturdays and still lets our people
Speaker:be well taken care of.
Speaker:Right, and when he did open on Saturdays, he said,
Speaker:"First of all, this is an experiment.
Speaker:"If it doesn't work out, we're gonna stop.
Speaker:"And secondly, I'm still gonna give people two days off.
Speaker:"Consecutively, it just won't be Saturday, right?
Speaker:"It'll be some other day of the week."
Speaker:Which I think is A, staying in integrity,
Speaker:but B, really smart to communicate clearly
Speaker:about your principles.
Speaker:He has all these videos about,
Speaker:"My people don't work on weekends.
Speaker:"My people get two days off like everybody else
Speaker:"'cause that's what we need to be okay."
Speaker:And then we come in and we're happy to be there.
Speaker:So if you've made such a stand on a principle
Speaker:and then you decide to change your choices
Speaker:around that principle, it's important to A,
Speaker:maintain those principles, and B,
Speaker:explain to people what you're doing.
Speaker:Yeah, because business doesn't exist in a vacuum
Speaker:and we don't exist in a vacuum, right?
Speaker:Like when the pandemic hit, lots of choices were made.
Speaker:Lots of decisions were had to decide what we're gonna do
Speaker:and what we're not gonna do and what we're gonna keep
Speaker:and what we're gonna cut.
Speaker:And how are we gonna, especially in food service,
Speaker:how are we going to continue to be able to do anything
Speaker:when people can't come into our space?
Speaker:You know, that would be easy to say food trucks had it
Speaker:easier because they didn't have some of those things,
Speaker:but that's not necessarily true either.
Speaker:What is true is that being in those environments
Speaker:where you have to make those kinds of decisions
Speaker:and knowing that things are gonna change
Speaker:because we're not in a vacuum,
Speaker:that's when you're really put to the test
Speaker:as a business owner.
Speaker:That's when you're really put to the test.
Speaker:Well, you said that this is what you value.
Speaker:How are you gonna walk that talk?
Speaker:And now that circumstances in the world have changed,
Speaker:how has that changed your perspective
Speaker:on that talk you wanted to walk?
Speaker:Because maybe it's the same and maybe it's not.
Speaker:Maybe it's, hey, I really wanted to be able to give people
Speaker:two days off in a row and we're not getting the employees
Speaker:to make that possible.
Speaker:We don't have the demand for people to work,
Speaker:so I have to call somebody in.
Speaker:Now, the nice thing is when you've got a company that has,
Speaker:and we're gonna talk about another company later this year
Speaker:who has, I don't know, 14,000 people on the wait list
Speaker:who wanna work for them, right?
Speaker:When you have that kind of spaciousness around the people
Speaker:who are coming in, this isn't a question of,
Speaker:do I give them two days off on a Saturday or not?
Speaker:It's, who am I gonna put in the right spot?
Speaker:When you don't have that volume of people waiting
Speaker:and chomping at the bit to be in your space,
Speaker:you do have to make more strategic decisions.
Speaker:You do have to make trade off sometimes.
Speaker:You do have to think differently about what you said
Speaker:you wanted versus what the reality of having
Speaker:is going to look like.
Speaker:And sometimes it's just about finding the people
Speaker:who want what you can offer.
Speaker:Because a lot of people are like, well,
Speaker:I don't wanna be open nights and weekends
Speaker:because who wants to work nights and weekends.
Speaker:In fact, there are a bunch of people
Speaker:who would rather just work nights or just work weekends.
Speaker:A lot of times the biggest need,
Speaker:so I'm working on a new book about best business practices
Speaker:and one of the things that I keep thinking,
Speaker:like I keep being like, I need to write that down.
Speaker:I already wrote it down.
Speaker:Is that you just, you need to make sure
Speaker:that you're thinking broadly about what people want
Speaker:because just because you don't want it
Speaker:doesn't mean that there isn't someone
Speaker:whose natural wake up time is 10 o'clock or noon
Speaker:and who would love to work a night shift,
Speaker:a second or third shift shift,
Speaker:if they could get consistent work hours.
Speaker:If they knew that they were on night shift five days a week
Speaker:like everybody else just late,
Speaker:they would be happy as a little clam at high tide.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Finding the right people,
Speaker:putting the right people in the right roles,
Speaker:that makes a huge difference.
Speaker:And it feels to me from what we've seen
Speaker:that Mike and Amman have really done a good job
Speaker:of putting the right people in the right roles
Speaker:because they have that longevity of their employees.
Speaker:And that also gives them
Speaker:because they've got that stability,
Speaker:the opportunity to experiment in ways of,
Speaker:okay, we're gonna try being open on Saturdays
Speaker:for one shift, 11 to six, who wants to do that?
Speaker:Let's see how that goes.
Speaker:No promises that this is forever,
Speaker:but if it sticks, it sticks
Speaker:and we'll work it out on the other end
Speaker:and see if there's another set of days
Speaker:that you can have off.
Speaker:Or maybe you have some kind of other thing in your life
Speaker:and it's actually convenient for you
Speaker:to have discontinuous days off.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Sometimes the right person falls into the right spot
Speaker:and it's the right thing for their life at that moment.
Speaker:The key is not forcing people to work shifts
Speaker:that don't work for them.
Speaker:Yeah, and I think that's the banner
Speaker:that you could slap on just about anything.
Speaker:The key is to just not force people.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Like let's not force people to show up
Speaker:in all these different ways
Speaker:and do all these different things
Speaker:and have to tow a line that they were never designed
Speaker:to tow in the first place.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And when we can look at,
Speaker:oh, this is how I'm wired
Speaker:and so this is what works for me.
Speaker:That's great when you're a solopreneur
Speaker:or a very micro business owner,
Speaker:but when you start bringing other people
Speaker:into the organization, you have to blow that lens up.
Speaker:Yes, this is what works for me.
Speaker:We're not gonna totally disregard that.
Speaker:And what works for the staff?
Speaker:What works for the customers?
Speaker:What works, where is the Venn diagram
Speaker:where the most people can be the happiest?
Speaker:How close can we get this to a circle?
Speaker:Right, right, exactly.
Speaker:And like let's keep moving in that direction.
Speaker:And I think this is a great example of an organization
Speaker:that is trying to do that in all of,
Speaker:many of the right ways.
Speaker:Right, right.
Speaker:And like you said, there's no 100% perfect company.
Speaker:Like we're just, there's no way to hit all of the marks,
Speaker:but we can work really hard
Speaker:and make it a really high priority.
Speaker:And I think we should be.
Speaker:I think that we're in this moment right now
Speaker:where we move from move fast and break things
Speaker:to move fast and break people.
Speaker:And that has become,
Speaker:just saying that I'm just like,
Speaker:oh, oh, you're not wrong.
Speaker:Oh, God, in my soul, yeah.
Speaker:And that's painful and it causes moral injury
Speaker:to everybody involved in the system,
Speaker:including the consumers who are kind of only half
Speaker:willingly being, yes, we're buying the stuff,
Speaker:but maybe you just really need
Speaker:to buy groceries from someone.
Speaker:And so we can't just extract ourselves from everything.
Speaker:And yet we know that the systems that we're participating
Speaker:in are increasingly immoral and increasingly inhumane.
Speaker:And so when you wanna make a standout company,
Speaker:especially when you're starting out,
Speaker:you wanna build a standout company,
Speaker:one of the best things you can do in this market
Speaker:is exactly what Mike and Amad have done
Speaker:and build a standout example of a company
Speaker:that treats its people like people.
Speaker:And when I say it's people, I mean, it's audience,
Speaker:it's social media audience,
Speaker:like the greater group of people that affiliate themselves
Speaker:and the customers and the staff and the founders,
Speaker:like everybody, let's treat everybody like people.
Speaker:Well, in the community,
Speaker:one of the things that really struck me
Speaker:was how involved in Detroit Metro Civics they are, right?
Speaker:Not just in, well, we're gonna bring the food truck
Speaker:and we're gonna serve food,
Speaker:but there are plenty of articles and posts of Amad
Speaker:being in the community as a community leader,
Speaker:cutting a ribbon somewhere
Speaker:or talking about this project here
Speaker:and having his fingers in the pies
Speaker:that are shaping the community that is Detroit,
Speaker:not just, hey, we own a sandwich shop, come check us out.
Speaker:Right, and then I'm gonna commute to my house,
Speaker:like maybe he does live outside of Detroit, I don't know,
Speaker:but he doesn't feel like he's disinterested
Speaker:or disconnected from Detroit.
Speaker:Right, exactly, exactly.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:One more thing I just wanna,
Speaker:two more things I wanna highlight before we finish up.
Speaker:One is that they really have this ethos of generosity
Speaker:that I appreciate, like not just pay your people well,
Speaker:not just make sure your people are eating on shift
Speaker:and therefore are familiar with your menu,
Speaker:which is another side bonus
Speaker:of having people eat the food on the menu.
Speaker:Because otherwise, if it's too expensive,
Speaker:they'll just bring food from home
Speaker:and they won't even know what stuff tastes like.
Speaker:But also, on his social media site,
Speaker:he spends a bunch of time explaining recipes.
Speaker:He runs a restaurant.
Speaker:Do you know how rare it is for restaurants
Speaker:to share the recipes that are actually making them famous?
Speaker:But he's aware that he has a much larger audience
Speaker:than the people that can actually come
Speaker:to his restaurant in Detroit.
Speaker:And I think his belief is that if you see
Speaker:how good the food is and you see how he makes it,
Speaker:you'll want to come.
Speaker:Next time I'm in Detroit, well, I try to go,
Speaker:yes, I will.
Speaker:I don't know when the next time I'll be in Detroit will be.
Speaker:But I used to fly through Detroit all the time.
Speaker:And before that, I was living in Canada
Speaker:and commuting back and forth through Detroit.
Speaker:If I had run across them at a different time in my life,
Speaker:they might have become my border crossing stop.
Speaker:So this generosity, and then
Speaker:he's giving away business strategy.
Speaker:Now, does it let him be a little opinionated
Speaker:and create maybe a little friction, a little controversy
Speaker:and stand up for himself?
Speaker:The other thing I wanted to mention
Speaker:is that nobody is confused about what he believes.
Speaker:It's that Hamilton line, if you stand for nothing,
Speaker:what'll you fall for?
Speaker:He stands for things.
Speaker:He stands on what he believes,
Speaker:and he says it out loud with his whole chest on the internet.
Speaker:And if you don't like it, don't shop here.
Speaker:But this ethos of not being stingy,
Speaker:of giving away the business advice
Speaker:that has made his business strong,
Speaker:and also the recipes that have made his business strong
Speaker:and allowing people to get a taste
Speaker:and see how complicated it is.
Speaker:But he's like, no, this is easy.
Speaker:You can do it at home.
Speaker:Here's how you do it.
Speaker:Like that welcoming, come on in, sit down feeling
Speaker:makes people feel welcome.
Speaker:And that's good for business.
Speaker:Yeah, and I think that's also a really great way
Speaker:to give back, I don't wanna say vicariously,
Speaker:but that's the word that's coming to mind right now,
Speaker:give back vicariously to the community
Speaker:that can't afford to buy from him right now, right?
Speaker:Hey, if you're in the area and you love our food
Speaker:and you can't, like here's the recipe,
Speaker:you can make it at home, right?
Speaker:Like that is, and this is something that I talk about a lot
Speaker:is like when you have a financial accessibility policy,
Speaker:right, especially when you are a smaller organization,
Speaker:you're not gonna be able to serve everybody,
Speaker:you're just not, right?
Speaker:And there are going to be people who traditionally
Speaker:can't afford you and you may still wanna work with them.
Speaker:And what are the ways that you can bake
Speaker:into your business model that allow you to do that, right?
Speaker:For me, for many years, I had a straight cat fund
Speaker:and it was like, all right, I have full pay clients
Speaker:and then I have some clients that I work with pro bono
Speaker:that are subsidized by the revenue that I get
Speaker:from those other people.
Speaker:And I would be able to take in a couple of straight cats
Speaker:and tend to their needs for a little while
Speaker:and then send them on their way, right?
Speaker:And that for me was what I could do
Speaker:to be financially accessible with the constraints
Speaker:that I had around my life and my financial needs
Speaker:and still wanting to be of service.
Speaker:And so I think there's always an opportunity for us,
Speaker:if we're willing to look for it,
Speaker:to say, how do we be of greater service
Speaker:in the things that we're already doing, right?
Speaker:That allow us to leave the world a little better off
Speaker:than it was when we found it.
Speaker:Right, and often it's just having,
Speaker:so the extreme of that is here to coffee,
Speaker:here in PDX where when the SNAP benefits got cut,
Speaker:they started a SNAP meal program.
Speaker:So if you walk in and you say, I need a SNAP meal,
Speaker:there's a standard meal, it's not fancy, but it's food
Speaker:and you can just have it for the asking.
Speaker:And they post on their Facebook feed every day,
Speaker:like, this is how many people didn't go hungry today
Speaker:because they came in and got a SNAP meal.
Speaker:And so that's kind of the extreme of that
Speaker:is having something that's free that people can access.
Speaker:Some of us do it by having YouTube material
Speaker:that people can just access.
Speaker:Some of us do it by having podcasts
Speaker:or by having pamphlets or free downloads.
Speaker:And then the next notch up is in the business coaching world
Speaker:is having a book or a PDF that's like 25 bucks.
Speaker:Okay, you can't afford to coach with me, I get it.
Speaker:There have been times in my life
Speaker:where I certainly couldn't afford my own rates.
Speaker:And, but I've written a lot of this stuff down.
Speaker:So here's the $20 access point.
Speaker:And then maybe you'll have a question
Speaker:and you want to hire me for an hour.
Speaker:And then the next step up is to have some kind
Speaker:of sliding fee scale or a stray cap fund
Speaker:or some combination of those things.
Speaker:I think there are all these things that we can do.
Speaker:And I haven't, I should have, I haven't combed
Speaker:through their menu to see if there's like a couple
Speaker:of low priced things, but that's what I would do.
Speaker:If I were pricing out a lot of my community
Speaker:is I would be like, here's the, here's a basic food
Speaker:that you can come in and be treated
Speaker:like every other customer and order
Speaker:that's not as expensive as everything else.
Speaker:I wouldn't point it out.
Speaker:I would just stick it on the menu
Speaker:along with everything else.
Speaker:Sure, sure.
Speaker:Well, and I think, so you said a couple of things there
Speaker:that I think are important to acknowledge.
Speaker:One, I think in, especially in the online world
Speaker:where cynicism runs high, it's really easy to look
Speaker:at all of the free content in the form of podcasts
Speaker:and videos and those kinds of things and go,
Speaker:well, it's just marketing.
Speaker:And it is marketing to some degree, sure.
Speaker:But it's also that level of support for those people
Speaker:who would not otherwise be able to reach out to us.
Speaker:So the invitation is there for us to remember
Speaker:that not everything is a cash grab, even if it's free,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Like there are people trying to do good work
Speaker:in the world here and just give,
Speaker:and the benefit on the other side is sometimes
Speaker:it turns out to be good marketing too.
Speaker:But then the other piece that you said
Speaker:that I thought was really important
Speaker:just flew out of my brain.
Speaker:So it's gone, but it was important.
Speaker:I don't remember what it was.
Speaker:Well, it's in the recording, we'll find it.
Speaker:We'll find it, yeah.
Speaker:But I think one of the things about the freebies too
Speaker:is that we tend to devalue certain kinds of free material
Speaker:and then expect other kinds.
Speaker:So for example, the number of crafts I have learned
Speaker:just from watching YouTube videos,
Speaker:like straight up the entire,
Speaker:everything I know about sewing, I learned off of YouTube.
Speaker:Almost everything, I learned how to thread a sewing machine
Speaker:from the instruction book.
Speaker:But like, and we kind of expect that crafters
Speaker:will provide detailed tutorials and detailed information
Speaker:about how to do their craft and that we can go to YouTube
Speaker:and learn that for free, which you used to have to
Speaker:at least buy a book, if not take a class
Speaker:or find an apprenticeship.
Speaker:And yet when somebody provides something similar
Speaker:and say the business world, we're like, oh, well,
Speaker:you know, it's just a cash grip.
Speaker:No, it's free learning, it's free teaching.
Speaker:You can take it or leave it, that's fine.
Speaker:But it's here because somebody has something
Speaker:they're so passionate about that they wanna share it.
Speaker:There used to be a guy who unfortunately died of brain cancer
Speaker:but his name, his handle on YouTube was the puppet nerd.
Speaker:He was an elementary school teacher who made puppets
Speaker:and I mean puppets, like Muppet level puppets
Speaker:for all kinds of like professionally as a side gig.
Speaker:But instead of just doing it, he taught it
Speaker:and he had classes for kids because he was a teacher
Speaker:and he loved working with kids.
Speaker:And he had some classes for adults
Speaker:but he had like the free stuff on YouTube
Speaker:and you could download the pattern for his free kids
Speaker:like fuzzy puppet like this for, I don't know, 10 bucks.
Speaker:And then there was the next notch up
Speaker:which was like a Skillshare class
Speaker:or something you could pay for.
Speaker:And then, you know, if you really wanted to,
Speaker:at one point he was teaching workshops
Speaker:that you could go attend.
Speaker:But like the whole range was right there
Speaker:because he loved it and he was like,
Speaker:there was no arguing about the level of professionalism
Speaker:he offered but also he was like, this is really simple.
Speaker:Get yourself some fuzzy fabric.
Speaker:You don't even need a sewing machine
Speaker:because it doesn't even go through,
Speaker:fuzzy fabric doesn't go through the sewing machine that well.
Speaker:Just get yourself a needle and thread, some fuzzy fabric
Speaker:and we're gonna make a puppet.
Speaker:Yeah, oh, that's the other thing that I wanted to say.
Speaker:It doesn't matter what of those options you choose.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Like the goal here is not to be like,
Speaker:I'm gonna have a sliding scale with 55 different offers
Speaker:at 35 different price points.
Speaker:No, the invitation here is to look at the bigger picture
Speaker:and remember that Venn diagram, what works for me,
Speaker:what works for them, what works for us
Speaker:and find the places that are a logical step
Speaker:for you to step into and go,
Speaker:oh, I could do a straight cat funder.
Speaker:Oh, I could do a reduced price or a free meal
Speaker:or I could do, like we could do this in our business.
Speaker:It's not, I am a very firm believer
Speaker:that if we want to change a system,
Speaker:change only comes from inside this.
Speaker:You have to be in the system in order to make the changes
Speaker:that then radiate out into the world.
Speaker:Now, if you're outside the system,
Speaker:you can influence actors inside the system,
Speaker:but the change happens from inside the system
Speaker:or we have to burn it all down.
Speaker:I'm not one to want to burn it all down.
Speaker:I'm one of those people that you were talking about earlier
Speaker:is like, I'm here, I'm kind of liking some of the things
Speaker:that I'm not happy with everything, but I'm here.
Speaker:And if we're in that system,
Speaker:you're not gonna be able to fix everything all at once.
Speaker:Try an experiment.
Speaker:Do something, not everything, not anything.
Speaker:Try something with intention and see how it works for you,
Speaker:see how it works for them, see what the feedback is
Speaker:and see if it's something that you can incorporate
Speaker:into your business model.
Speaker:And if it's not, then set it aside and try something else
Speaker:with the same kind of intention behind it.
Speaker:And you will find the mix for yourself
Speaker:that allows you to be profitable, to be sustainable,
Speaker:to be healthy, to do well, to do well for your people
Speaker:and to do well for yourself.
Speaker:Right, to do well by doing good.
Speaker:Yeah, I think the core of what I'm hearing you say
Speaker:is integrity, stay in integrity.
Speaker:Do the right thing for you, for your systems,
Speaker:for your beliefs, like stay within that
Speaker:and don't be afraid to say, we don't do this,
Speaker:we don't do that, we're not open on Saturdays
Speaker:or we're open on Saturdays,
Speaker:but only assuming we can give people two days off.
Speaker:If we, it may be that they look at that and they're like,
Speaker:if we can't give people two days off in a row,
Speaker:we're just not gonna be open on Saturdays anymore.
Speaker:We're ending that.
Speaker:But it may also be that they're tapping
Speaker:a whole new pool of employees out in Madison Heights
Speaker:and that needs are different, situations are different.
Speaker:I think there's so much pressure.
Speaker:One of the reasons I started this podcast and this business
Speaker:is because there's so much pressure
Speaker:when you start a business.
Speaker:People are all constantly, constantly telling you
Speaker:and books are telling you, podcasts are telling you,
Speaker:you can't do that, you can't do this,
Speaker:that's not how business works.
Speaker:You just have to toughen up, you just have to this,
Speaker:you just have to that.
Speaker:And it's all bullshit, it's all nonsense.
Speaker:And instead you can just say, it's okay.
Speaker:If you don't like it, don't,
Speaker:people come to me all the time and they're like,
Speaker:I don't like to be put in a box.
Speaker:I don't know why you're making this framework
Speaker:that puts people in a box.
Speaker:I have a personality framework for those of you who don't know.
Speaker:And I always say to them, if it doesn't work for you,
Speaker:don't use it.
Speaker:I absolutely do not want this to be pressure
Speaker:on anybody for whom it's not useful.
Speaker:It's just in the world to be useful.
Speaker:It started because I said a few things
Speaker:and they made sense to people and they supported people
Speaker:and it felt useful to them.
Speaker:And I want this, I went to the effort
Speaker:of putting it more robustly in the world
Speaker:because I want it to be useful.
Speaker:I want it to be of service.
Speaker:If it's not serving you, just walk by, just put it down.
Speaker:Don't tell anyone if you think it's terrible.
Speaker:Like just don't talk to people about it.
Speaker:The people who like it will talk about it.
Speaker:And I think that, just stay in your lane.
Speaker:Like don't let Instagram get to you,
Speaker:don't let the business companies get to you.
Speaker:Just do what feels right to you,
Speaker:what makes sense to you
Speaker:and what makes logical sense for your business.
Speaker:Yeah, in a toolbox,
Speaker:you can have 14 different kinds of screwdrivers.
Speaker:If you need a Phillips screwdriver,
Speaker:a star-headed screwdriver is not gonna help you.
Speaker:But it's a very helpful tool
Speaker:if you have the right kind of screw for that screwdriver.
Speaker:And all of these options,
Speaker:when you're building business models,
Speaker:when you're looking at how you want to design
Speaker:and run your business model, or business,
Speaker:there are so many choices, right?
Speaker:They're all tools.
Speaker:How you choose to use them or not use them
Speaker:is what creates your particular iteration of business.
Speaker:And those choices will attract a certain kind of audience.
Speaker:And another kind of audience will be like,
Speaker:that's not for me.
Speaker:And you know what?
Speaker:That's cool because those people get to go somewhere else
Speaker:and get their needs met
Speaker:because they're the Phillips-head screwdriver people
Speaker:and you're not, and that's cool.
Speaker:Like that's the way it needs to be.
Speaker:I need to recognize that instead of
Speaker:how many more customers can I,
Speaker:how many more markets can I corner
Speaker:and how many more people can I amass
Speaker:and how much more can I extract?
Speaker:That frenetic take energy does not ultimately serve.
Speaker:And you alluded this earlier, you said,
Speaker:it doesn't serve these people.
Speaker:It ultimately doesn't serve the people
Speaker:at the top of the quote unquote pyramid either.
Speaker:They just have enough money to insulate themselves
Speaker:from the effects of it for longer.
Speaker:Right, they have cushion.
Speaker:And that cushion often makes people
Speaker:not as good at decision-making.
Speaker:True.
Speaker:Because they don't know, they can't feel it.
Speaker:My father used to drive an Oldsmobile
Speaker:and it went when he drove it.
Speaker:And I hated driving that car
Speaker:because I couldn't feel the road.
Speaker:I didn't know what was happening.
Speaker:I wanted, like I drive a Subaru
Speaker:and I wanted to feel the road.
Speaker:I wanted to feel if like if the wheel was being pulled,
Speaker:I wanted to feel that it was being pulled
Speaker:so that I knew something was happening under the tires.
Speaker:Makes a difference.
Speaker:It does.
Speaker:Well, this has been delightful.
Speaker:Indeed.
Speaker:I have really enjoyed recording with you today.
Speaker:I am looking forward to recording next time.
Speaker:Do you wanna tell people where to find you on the internet?
Speaker:Sure, the easiest way to find me
Speaker:is to go to lisarobagnang.com.
Speaker:Robin's got two Bs, if you only type one B,
Speaker:you'll miss me, you won't find me.
Speaker:And I am Lisa Robin Yang on most of the socials.
Speaker:If I've got a social profile, that's how you'll find me.
Speaker:And I am at intensivesinstitute.com
Speaker:but more now at alegianoconsulting.com
Speaker:which has the terrible branding problem
Speaker:of being hard to spell, A-L-E-I-X.
Speaker:A-L-E-I-G-I-N-O.
Speaker:And I will put all of our stuff in the show notes.
Speaker:I also just wanna shout out the actual locations
Speaker:of Detroit 75.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The flagship location is at 4800 West Fort Street
Speaker:in Detroit.
Speaker:Their phone number is 313-843-3215.
Speaker:And their hours are Monday through Thursday, 10 to six
Speaker:and Friday, 10 to eight, closed Saturdays and Sundays.
Speaker:The Madison Heights location which has sit-down dining
Speaker:or has Eden dining which the other place doesn't
Speaker:is 32275 Stevenson Highway, Madison Heights, Michigan.
Speaker:Their phone number is 248-653-5555.
Speaker:They are open Monday through Friday, 10 to eight
Speaker:and Saturday 11 to six still closed Sunday
Speaker:because we have to have some principles.
Speaker:Sorry.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Thank you so much.
Speaker:I will, we will see you next week.
Speaker:Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker:This has been Power Pivot Season Three,
Speaker:a podcast about using the power in your business for good
Speaker:with host Leela Sinha of the Intensives Institute
Speaker:and Aleixiano Consulting.
Speaker:With zim, you heard co-host Lisa Robin Young.
Speaker:The podcast is produced by Leela Sinha
Speaker:with support by William Jamison.
Speaker:To support our podcast and other related work,
Speaker:please consider joining our Patreon at patreon.com
Speaker:slash Leela S.
