Episode 4

Local Ocean

In which we discuss Local Ocean, a restaurant on the coast of Oregon that specializes in local fish and sustainable wages. What is a sustainable wage? How does it work when the local economy is under strain? How do we support local fisheries and manage expectations?

Visit Local Ocean: https://www.localocean.net/

Connect with Leela or Lisa:

Leela Sinha, aleixianoconsulting.com

Lisa Robbin Young, lisarobbinyoung.com

Patreon: patreon.com/LeelaS

Transcript
Leela Sinha:

Okay, so you actually went.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yeah, I did. I did, and I mean, I have a lot

Leela Sinha:

of good things to say, but I think the piece that was a

Leela Sinha:

little confusing for me as a consumer, right? Not as a

Leela Sinha:

business coach who's looking at their business model, but as a

Leela Sinha:

consumer, I'm sitting at the table, looking at the menu. The

Leela Sinha:

prices are higher than what I pay around here in the Portland

Leela Sinha:

area, so I'm thinking, okay, that fee is already baked into

Leela Sinha:

the price, and the way it's worded on the menu makes it

Leela Sinha:

sound like it's already baked into the price. And then when

Leela Sinha:

the bill came,

Leela Sinha:

it wasn't baked into the price.

Leela Sinha:

What wasn't baked into the price? Like the tips,

Leela Sinha:

or

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: well, yeah, because they don't tip, right?

Leela Sinha:

Like it's a 20% service charge,

Leela Sinha:

right?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: That they add to the bill for all dine in, and

Leela Sinha:

then there's a note that says tipping's not required. It's

Leela Sinha:

appreciated. It will go to your server, and I'm like, well, now

Leela Sinha:

I'm confused.

Leela Sinha:

Right? Like,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: am I am I am I doing 20% and a tip? Cause I'm

Leela Sinha:

not like help me as a consumer make it easy for me as a

Leela Sinha:

consumer to understand what I'm really paying for, right? You

Leela Sinha:

know, we we ended up

Leela Sinha:

it was almost $100 for our lunch, and I was just like,

Leela Sinha:

"Well, that's a bit more than I thought we were like. And it was

Leela Sinha:

just two of you, right? And it was just the two of us. It's

Leela Sinha:

just my husband and I, and it was like fish and chips and a

Leela Sinha:

soup and sandwich, and so it was like, wait, huh?

Leela Sinha:

So I was a little surprised, but like I said, lots of really nice

Leela Sinha:

things to say about this place too. That was just something

Leela Sinha:

that, as a consumer, kind of caught me by surprise.

Leela Sinha:

Well, I think we've got some good stuff to talk

Leela Sinha:

about in terms of pricing and expectations and food and the

Leela Sinha:

way our country does that. So let's get started for real.

Leela Sinha:

In the world of business, there are a lot of choices. There are

Leela Sinha:

a lot of lies. There are a lot of shortcuts. There are a lot of

Leela Sinha:

people taking those shortcuts and telling those lies. And then

Leela Sinha:

there are the people who choose to do it right at a time when so

Leela Sinha:

often profit is king, those people are increasingly rare.

Leela Sinha:

But when those people are in charge, good things happen.

Leela Sinha:

Fortunately, some of those people are business owners, some

Leela Sinha:

of those people are bosses, and we are here to showcase the best

Leela Sinha:

ones. I'm your host Leela Sinha with co-host Lisa Robin Young.

Leela Sinha:

Let's get started. So, welcome to Power Pivot season three.

Leela Sinha:

This is episode four.

Leela Sinha:

My name is four, right? My name is Leela Sinha, and this is Lisa

Leela Sinha:

Robin Young, and she is my co-host. And we are excited to

Leela Sinha:

have you with us on Power Pivot Best Bosses, where we're talking

Leela Sinha:

about businesses that are doing things right, it does sort of

Leela Sinha:

imply that we're talking about employer-employee relationships,

Leela Sinha:

but really, it's it's you know everything that a company can do

Leela Sinha:

right, especially in this moment, in this place, in this

Leela Sinha:

time when so many companies are not doing things right. So so

Leela Sinha:

today we are talking about Local Ocean, which is a Newport,

Leela Sinha:

Oregon seafood restaurant and fish market, and I was hoping to

Leela Sinha:

get out there, but I am in the middle of some significant life

Leela Sinha:

chaos. So Lisa managed to get out there, and so we're going to

Leela Sinha:

be hearing from her about her experience, and then we're going

Leela Sinha:

to be talking a little bit about the cost of doing business.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yeah. So my husband and I went out over our

Leela Sinha:

weekend to Newport, and right off the bat, the thing-and this

Leela Sinha:

might seem silly-but to me, it was it was a really powerful

Leela Sinha:

expression of community care, right? So we're pulling up along

Leela Sinha:

dock side, and there's several docks, and the fishing boats are

Leela Sinha:

out. Some are some are already leaving. Some are coming in. I

Leela Sinha:

mean, they're they're in all states of of traffic flow, and

Leela Sinha:

we're trying to find a place to park. But all along, like the

Leela Sinha:

prime parking real estate, it all says licensed fisherman

Leela Sinha:

only, and it's like they really actually want these people in

Leela Sinha:

their community to have the resources that are important for

Leela Sinha:

them. Like they don't need to truck 10 blocks from where they

Leela Sinha:

parked their car to get on a boat. Like you can park

Leela Sinha:

practically, yeah, practically right in front of where your

Leela Sinha:

boat is parked, and you know tourists can fend for

Leela Sinha:

themselves. Right. And as a as a municipality, I think that

Leela Sinha:

that's a really great message to send to the hundreds and

Leela Sinha:

hundreds of workers who are on the docks, who are getting on

Leela Sinha:

the boats. Because if you go to Newport, you'll see obviously

Leela Sinha:

the docks and the boats, but then there are two fisheries,

Leela Sinha:

like boom, boom, like right there on the water, and they're

Leela Sinha:

processing fish, and they're bringing them in, and they're

Leela Sinha:

you know you see all of the workers moving around, and

Leela Sinha:

they're right across the street from local ocean, so I mean it

Leela Sinha:

was all right there. You could see the fishing industry

Leela Sinha:

ecosystem basically from from the water to the broken

Leela Sinha:

waterfront.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Absolutely, absolutely, and. So you know

Leela Sinha:

you're watching all of that go on, and then you come upon local

Leela Sinha:

ocean once you find a place to park.

Leela Sinha:

Since you are not a fisherman,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: that's right. I am not not a fisherman. So we

Leela Sinha:

actually got a pretty decent place to park. The the fish

Leela Sinha:

market space is is pretty good size, right? And they've got

Leela Sinha:

lots of options, and they also have an indoor dining area and

Leela Sinha:

an outdoor patio dining area. So we chose to to eat out on the

Leela Sinha:

patio, and I mean they've done they've done some really nice

Leela Sinha:

things to service the customer in this space, right? Like

Leela Sinha:

they've got all their displays set up up front, so even if

Leela Sinha:

you're coming into the to eat in the restaurant, you're coming

Leela Sinha:

past all of the displays of all of the fish markets that they

Leela Sinha:

have, right? Like the fish market part. So like you get the

Leela Sinha:

fish market experience without having to buy a fish and take it

Leela Sinha:

to your table and figure out how to prepare it, right? Oh, have

Leela Sinha:

you been to

Leela Sinha:

Portugal?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: No, I haven't. It's on my bucket list.

Leela Sinha:

So, you know, we we go around the corner and we we sit out

Leela Sinha:

outside, and even out there, they have set up basically a

Leela Sinha:

food cart truck where they have right. Except, I mean, they're

Leela Sinha:

not they're not actually like serving out of the truck. This

Leela Sinha:

is like their outdoor bar service area, right? Like, so

Leela Sinha:

this is where their their service team goes to enter

Leela Sinha:

orders to you know get plates and dishes and those kind of

Leela Sinha:

things. So it's it's basically like the service

Leela Sinha:

station,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: right? Yeah, basically. But it's it's nice,

Leela Sinha:

right? Like they don't have to run all the way indoors, so they

Leela Sinha:

they've really thought about the traffic flow and how to keep the

Leela Sinha:

doorway clear because they've got all that stuff outside, but

Leela Sinha:

it's all in shelter, so you don't have to worry about oh the

Leela Sinha:

plates are going to get dirty or any of those kinds of things. It

Leela Sinha:

doesn't feel like it's a temporary space, even though I

Leela Sinha:

mean technically it is. It's a seasonal space, you know,

Leela Sinha:

waitstaff was charming and very kind and and happy to be there,

Leela Sinha:

right? And we've talked before about how, in in food service,

Leela Sinha:

you you can get you can be cranky because you're not being

Leela Sinha:

well cared for, right? Yeah, and the turnover can be high, and

Leela Sinha:

you know our server was very complimentary and Johnny on the

Leela Sinha:

spot, and just really available to us. And there were other

Leela Sinha:

serve, there were other customers in the area. It wasn't

Leela Sinha:

like it was just us. And you know when you open up the menu,

Leela Sinha:

and I, but when you open up the menu, you see the story of this

Leela Sinha:

company and why they do the things that they do, and so

Leela Sinha:

they're educating you, and you're getting this really great

Leela Sinha:

experience where you feel cared for from beginning to end. Right

Leela Sinha:

from the moment that they take you to a seat to the moment that

Leela Sinha:

you're paying the bill and walking out the the door, it's

Leela Sinha:

it's a really thoughtful experience,

Leela Sinha:

which is a really great thing in in in places like

Leela Sinha:

that where a little insider knowledge goes a long way. You

Leela Sinha:

know, if you're coming from Portland, you may never have had

Leela Sinha:

to encounter anything except there's a fish and chips on the

Leela Sinha:

menu, and I checked it off, and that's what I wanted. And and so

Leela Sinha:

understanding a little more about the context and a little

Leela Sinha:

more about the fish, you know. Oh, look, there's more than one

Leela Sinha:

kind of fish. Oh dear, what do we do? There was more than one

Leela Sinha:

kind

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: of fish for the fish and chips. I I opened

Leela Sinha:

up the menu. I'm like, I think I'll have fish and chips because

Leela Sinha:

that's an easy right. Right. Yeah. And I was like, oh,

Leela Sinha:

there's three different kinds of fish, and I'm not fish smart, so

Leela Sinha:

I don't know one fish from another. I mean, I I I know some

Leela Sinha:

fish from another, but in fish and chips, no. And so I'm like,

Leela Sinha:

tell me about my options here. And she was very knowledgeable

Leela Sinha:

about the product, which is always great when you've got

Leela Sinha:

service people who have product knowledge, right? And and I'm

Leela Sinha:

and I'm talking about it in this more generic way because this is

Leela Sinha:

applicable to any business in any industry. When your people

Leela Sinha:

on the floor have good product knowledge, it allows your

Leela Sinha:

customer to feel more trust in not only the recommendations but

Leela Sinha:

in the organization. Right? We're not getting the runaround.

Leela Sinha:

We're not being told. I don't know. This is only my second

Leela Sinha:

day. You know, it's like I can tell you right away. These are

Leela Sinha:

the things that you need to know. So if you like something

Leela Sinha:

that's a little more fishy, you'll probably want this. If

Leela Sinha:

you want something that's a little more firm, you're going

Leela Sinha:

to want this, and and having that kind of knowledge around

Leela Sinha:

your product line gives everybody a better experience

Leela Sinha:

because your server even feels like they are more

Leela Sinha:

knowledgeable, right? Like, oh wow, look at me being smart and

Leela Sinha:

being helpful to our customers. Yeah, I mean, and I'm sure they

Leela Sinha:

don't think about it like that, but it's like that stuff becomes

Leela Sinha:

important to your sense of belonging in the organization.

Leela Sinha:

Right, right, and and taking pride in your work is

Leela Sinha:

a thing. Right, being able to be proud-it's they're sort of your

Leela Sinha:

fish sommelier. Yes,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: yes. In this instance, absolutely, they were

Leela Sinha:

also wine sommelier because I'm like I don't know anything about

Leela Sinha:

wine either. Like, right? I'm I I want to be a foodie. I am not

Leela Sinha:

a foodie. Oh, don't worry. Portland will make

Leela Sinha:

you into a foodie. Have you really

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: tell me?

Leela Sinha:

Tiny little sidebar. Have you been to

Leela Sinha:

Portland Fish Market in Woodstock yet, no, not yet. You

Leela Sinha:

should go. They have three different kind, four different

Leela Sinha:

kinds of fish available for their fish and chips, which is

Leela Sinha:

gluten free and very tasty. It's like it's it's excellent,

Leela Sinha:

excellent. I have been living like less than a block from

Leela Sinha:

there, so it is my go-to. Oh my God, I can't eat, I can't cook

Leela Sinha:

tonight. Food, so highly recommend.

Leela Sinha:

But and and but that's what you want to see, right? In a in a

Leela Sinha:

working waterfront town, in a an oceanside town, in a fisherman's

Leela Sinha:

town, that's what you want to see is is staff and whether

Leela Sinha:

you're buying at a fish market or whether you're buying at a

Leela Sinha:

restaurant. You want to see people who really understand

Leela Sinha:

fish, because broadly speaking, Americans do not understand

Leela Sinha:

fish.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: I I don't.

Unknown:

Yeah.

Unknown:

Lisa Robbin Young: I I I remember as a child, my dad

Unknown:

would say, "Put the worm on the hook. Put the hook in the water.

Unknown:

Wait for the fish. Like whatever you caught, you caught. Right.

Unknown:

And if it was something that you didn't want to keep, you threw

Unknown:

it back. Caught a lot of sunfish didn't catch much else, you

Unknown:

know, because I was just a kid. So yeah, no, not a. Again, want

Unknown:

to be a foodie? Not a foodie. I like the idea of being a foodie,

Unknown:

not not a not a foodie. A

Leela Sinha:

growing foodie, an aspiring foodie. There

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: you go. There you go.

Leela Sinha:

So so you're at Local Ocean and you have this

Leela Sinha:

very well cared for, well curated experience. It sounds

Leela Sinha:

like

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: yes, yes, yes, very much so.

Leela Sinha:

And they are a worker; they're employee owned,

Leela Sinha:

right?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: I believe that is accurate. I think they

Leela Sinha:

have a modified business model where because they they

Leela Sinha:

transitioned into an employee, it's a collective organization,

Leela Sinha:

so it's not. It's not. I'm gonna lie here. It's not truly

Leela Sinha:

employee owned. I think. I think there's like a holding company,

Leela Sinha:

and the employees own that or some something like that.

Leela Sinha:

Okay, so the website says extraordinary

Leela Sinha:

seafood experiences from local Oregon fishermen.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: But I mean, they're talking. You can see,

Leela Sinha:

you can see on the menu. It's like these are the fish that

Leela Sinha:

that came in today. You know, this is the fish that you know

Leela Sinha:

we we've ordered from the fishery across the street,

Leela Sinha:

right? Like this. So you know it's fresh, and you know it's

Leela Sinha:

local. I don't think there's anything on the menu that I saw

Leela Sinha:

that wasn't locally sourced,

Leela Sinha:

which is which is fantastic because I've had so

Leela Sinha:

much trouble finding places where I can get local seafood,

Leela Sinha:

and I was shocked because I moved to Portland from the Bay

Leela Sinha:

Area and from to the Bay Area from Maine, and the only way you

Leela Sinha:

get fish in Maine is local. Like you can buy, like people will

Leela Sinha:

look at you sideways. You could buy that from somewhere else,

Leela Sinha:

but why would you do that when we have perfectly good fish here

Leela Sinha:

and lots of it and lots of different kinds of? So when I

Leela Sinha:

came to the West Coast and I was like, I where's the local fish?

Leela Sinha:

And they were like, I don't know. I guess that one's kind of

Leela Sinha:

local. It's from Alaska.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yeah, like 80% I think it was might have

Leela Sinha:

been in the menu, but I was reading while I was there that

Leela Sinha:

something like 80% of the fish that is caught in along the

Leela Sinha:

Oregon coast is exported to every place but the Oregon area,

Leela Sinha:

and I was just like, "Wow! So at most 20% of the fish that these

Leela Sinha:

people are catching is going to stay local, and the rest of it's

Leela Sinha:

all going to go somewhere else.

Leela Sinha:

Right.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: That kind of blew my mind.

Leela Sinha:

Yeah, it's it's wild, and it's a very strange

Leela Sinha:

model for something like fish, because fish does not travel

Leela Sinha:

well. It can be made to travel, but it is so much better when it

Leela Sinha:

has not been made to travel. So, so I was I was really delighted

Leela Sinha:

to see this this restaurant. I was like, oh, yay! There's a

Leela Sinha:

place that has local fish.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yeah, yeah. Well, local fish, and one of the

Leela Sinha:

things that I was really interested in was the we pay a

Leela Sinha:

living wage, right? And and we've talked about that when we

Leela Sinha:

talked about Detroit 75 Kitchen, and we're talking about two

Leela Sinha:

different economic regions of the country. So it's like, all

Leela Sinha:

right, well we've seen how they've done it in the Midwest.

Leela Sinha:

How are they doing it here,

Leela Sinha:

right?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Because the cost of living is typically

Leela Sinha:

higher on this side of the country,

Unknown:

right?

Unknown:

Lisa Robbin Young: And in lots of places where I live, it's

Unknown:

higher than where I used to live when I lived in Michigan. So, so

Unknown:

it was like, all right, let's let's kind of do an apples to

Unknown:

apples comparison and see what we're dealing with here, and

Unknown:

that's where, as a consumer, I was a little surprised by how

Unknown:

things were priced. But as a business owner, I liked what

Unknown:

they were doing. I just wish they had been a little bit more

Unknown:

clear for from the consumers' side of things. But but the idea

Unknown:

itself is we're we're only surcharging people who dine in,

Leela Sinha:

right?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: And everybody gets paid a fair wage. But if

Leela Sinha:

you're dining in, there's just more work in serving you, so

Leela Sinha:

we're charging that extra 20% on the price of whatever it is that

Leela Sinha:

you're buying, because we want to continue to pay everyone a

Leela Sinha:

living wage, not just your server who showed up at the

Leela Sinha:

table to take your order and deliver your food. So this is

Leela Sinha:

how we do that,

Leela Sinha:

right?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: And then if you want to tip on top of that,

Leela Sinha:

you're more than welcome to, which I think is a great

Leela Sinha:

business model because it ensures that costs are covered,

Leela Sinha:

people are being cared for in wages and benefits.

Leela Sinha:

Right,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: right. They can work a full a full time

Leela Sinha:

shift. Right. It's not well. We're going to work you three

Leela Sinha:

hours today and four hours tomorrow, and then we're going

Leela Sinha:

to be off for the rest of the week, like is very common in

Leela Sinha:

food service, right? They're working full day shifts. Then

Leela Sinha:

you've got an opportunity to really take care of yourself and

Leela Sinha:

stay in your community and not have to worry about oh, I got to

Leela Sinha:

move away because I got to go find a job that pays me. Well, I

Leela Sinha:

can work here,

Leela Sinha:

right? And I can have a career here instead of

Leela Sinha:

just exactly,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: right, right, exactly, exactly.

Leela Sinha:

Yeah, and I I think that it's really great to think

Leela Sinha:

about like what is the business model that allows people to do

Leela Sinha:

that when we talk about retail or we talk about food service.

Leela Sinha:

So often, as you say, we're talking about people who are

Leela Sinha:

being given these erratic, first of all, an erratic schedule.

Leela Sinha:

Which don't get me started on erratic scheduling because I

Leela Sinha:

mean it's terrible. It's just so hard on the people who are in

Leela Sinha:

it, right? And then in addition to that, we're talking about

Leela Sinha:

three hours here, four hours there. You can work a dinner

Leela Sinha:

shift here. You can work after the game there, and then and

Leela Sinha:

then maybe nothing else the rest of the week. And so you don't

Leela Sinha:

have a full-time job, but you're expected to be available anytime

Leela Sinha:

they want you. And so it's very hard to get another job. It's

Leela Sinha:

very hard to have a social life. It's very hard to build a

Leela Sinha:

network. It's very hard to have the kind of community support

Leela Sinha:

that we talked about last time, right? So, so it's it's such a

Leela Sinha:

challenge. So when I sit down and think, if I were in charge

Leela Sinha:

of the world, what would I do? One of the things I would do is

Leela Sinha:

give retail and food service people regular, predictable

Leela Sinha:

hours and full time for anybody who wanted it. Some people don't

Leela Sinha:

want full time; it's an extra job, or they have kids, or

Leela Sinha:

whatever. But but a lot of people want full time, and so

Leela Sinha:

how do we get that full time support for people who want it?

Leela Sinha:

And how do we get and and I think you know your your price

Leela Sinha:

discrepancy challenge is partially that, right? That that

Leela Sinha:

you know Portland is expensive, but the coast isn't less

Leela Sinha:

expensive. The coast is is tourist and you know wealthy

Leela Sinha:

beach house sort of territory, and then the people who serve

Leela Sinha:

them, and so and so what happens? You know, in in Maine,

Leela Sinha:

we had a similar problem. It was, you know, Acadia National

Leela Sinha:

Park has originally it's it's on an island, and originally there

Leela Sinha:

was like the fancy side, and then the quiet side of the

Leela Sinha:

island, which used to be where all the help lived, and now it's

Leela Sinha:

just as expensive to live on the quiet side. So all the help

Leela Sinha:

lives, you know, three towns over and back on the mainland,

Leela Sinha:

and it's a lot of gas to get down there to work. But but

Leela Sinha:

that's a challenge of coastal living, a challenge of these

Leela Sinha:

kinds of fishing communities. That there are the people who

Leela Sinha:

serve the fancy people, and then there are the fancy people, and

Leela Sinha:

trying to make the economics work for both of them. I think

Leela Sinha:

Detroit 75 Kitchen was an interesting example because it

Leela Sinha:

was in a in a city where you could reasonably expect all the

Leela Sinha:

pieces to fit together, but the further toward the coast you

Leela Sinha:

get, the more isolated you get. In this case, you're on the

Leela Sinha:

other side of mountains. You're on the other side of things. It

Leela Sinha:

gets really, really hard to figure out how we can make an

Leela Sinha:

actual robust economy work there in a way that the people who

Leela Sinha:

serve that economy can afford.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Right. Did that make

Leela Sinha:

sense? It

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: does make sense, and and I'm sitting here

Leela Sinha:

imagining myself as the fancy people. Like I need to be the

Leela Sinha:

fancy people for a hot second. Yay! But I mean, this is and

Leela Sinha:

this is something that we see. Any time you have, and I know

Leela Sinha:

Newport's not a big town, but anytime you have urban

Leela Sinha:

expansion, right? Anytime you have a city center that starts

Leela Sinha:

to grow and more people are coming in, demand for housing,

Leela Sinha:

prices go up, like all of that happens, and it doesn't matter

Leela Sinha:

whether you're on the coast or in a little farm town somewhere,

Leela Sinha:

as demand goes up, prices go up, and so to your point, the idea

Leela Sinha:

of how do we then care for the people who are doing the work,

Leela Sinha:

so that they don't have to truck in for. 70 miles away, or an

Leela Sinha:

hour away, or even 30 minutes away, because that's where they

Leela Sinha:

can afford to live. How do we create a business model that

Leela Sinha:

pays them a living wage for where we are, not where we want

Leela Sinha:

to ship them off to? Because everything costs more here, so I

Leela Sinha:

think that that's one of the things that I think they have

Leela Sinha:

done very well is the pricing. Well, I was surprised by it. I'm

Leela Sinha:

there were several people around us who come every week because

Leela Sinha:

the servers knew their names and hello again, you know all of

Leela Sinha:

that. So they're they're used to it. They're aware of it. They

Leela Sinha:

know what's going on, and you're not typically even in a tourist

Leela Sinha:

town. You're not typically trying to build your business

Leela Sinha:

solely on tourist traffic that's only going to be there once or

Leela Sinha:

twice. You want those repeat customers who are there with you

Leela Sinha:

throughout the season, who are the locals. Because number one,

Leela Sinha:

if the locals go there, that means it's probably pretty good,

Leela Sinha:

right?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Right. If the locals are coming back,

Leela Sinha:

then

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: that's that's how you know that they've got

Leela Sinha:

something good going on. So there's that piece, and then the

Leela Sinha:

other side of that coin is, as you build those relationships

Leela Sinha:

with your customers through your service team, they are more

Leela Sinha:

inclined to want to come back because they are being well

Leela Sinha:

taken care of while they're there, and we had a wonderful

Leela Sinha:

experience while we were in the space. So I mean, it was a

Leela Sinha:

really nice, nice experience,

Leela Sinha:

which is very similar to what we saw with mr.

Leela Sinha:

Mixer, right? Like people have such a good relationship with

Leela Sinha:

the company and have such good experiences with the service,

Leela Sinha:

that that when mr. Mixer, when anybody's got a mixer and it

Leela Sinha:

comes up, like those people become ambassadors. Essentially,

Leela Sinha:

they become brand ambassadors.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: I can't tell you how many mixers I've seen on

Leela Sinha:

Facebook Marketplace while I'm looking for other things. I'm

Leela Sinha:

like, I should buy that and I should send it to mr. Mixer, and

Leela Sinha:

then I should like, I'm gonna do an arbitrage thing. Like, my

Leela Sinha:

brain was going.

Leela Sinha:

Yeah, so, so I think there's an interesting

question:

this business of like commuting and and the service

question:

staff versus the customers, because we look at something

question:

like the Bay Area, and we have a similar problem, but a very like

question:

it's not the same problem. But it's it's that if if you want

question:

your employees close to your company and your company is in

question:

the Bay Area because that's the nexus of whatever, you've got to

question:

pay. You've got to pay well because people in the Bay Area.

question:

I was shocked when I lived there. People commuted three

question:

hours to work in the morning, and three hours home. That's a

question:

whole extra work day. Yeah,

Unknown:

yeah,

Leela Sinha:

the whole extra work day.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: And and the horror stories that I've I've

Leela Sinha:

I've had clients who lived in the Bay Area as they were

Leela Sinha:

growing their business, and it was like, yeah, I'm renting this

Leela Sinha:

basement space. So not even like an apartment, just a space in

Leela Sinha:

someone's basement. And the heat doesn't work right. And this

Leela Sinha:

problem's going on. And oh, I'm paying almost $2,000 a month for

Leela Sinha:

this hovel, right? And it's just like,

Leela Sinha:

right,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: housing is out of control. Right, and

Leela Sinha:

there's still a need. It's still got to be filled, and people

Leela Sinha:

still need jobs. And and and right. So how do we how do we

Leela Sinha:

find how do we strike the balance? Because we're still

Leela Sinha:

inside capitalism. Right, that hasn't changed. What do we do,

Leela Sinha:

and how do we do things differently so that people

Leela Sinha:

actually have an opportunity for being closer and not having to

Leela Sinha:

do another day's worth of work just to drive to and from work,

Leela Sinha:

right? And you know, like Google, at least for

Leela Sinha:

a while, was solving the problem with very fancy tour busses that

Leela Sinha:

drove in from various places, and they had Wi-Fi. So some

Leela Sinha:

people would get on the bus and start their workday on the bus,

Leela Sinha:

and then like arrive at the office, be at the office for the

Leela Sinha:

core hours, and then get back on the bus and finish their work

Leela Sinha:

day on the bus, which is at least a little bit more fair in

Leela Sinha:

terms of the the personal cost and the opportunity cost of

Leela Sinha:

being in a commute that long, but it doesn't actually solve

Leela Sinha:

the problem. And then you know there are some companies that

Leela Sinha:

have talked about building company housing, and I'm like,

Leela Sinha:

we do not need company towns and company stores. We tried that;

Leela Sinha:

it was terrible. Let's not do that. Well,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: I will say, since we're talking about

Leela Sinha:

company housing, 100 years ago, and I do mean like 100 years

Leela Sinha:

ago, because I grew up in Flint, General Motors founded a

Leela Sinha:

completely different division of the company called Modern

Leela Sinha:

Housing, and they actually built. Homes in neighborhood,

Leela Sinha:

like whole neighborhoods of homes, and you can you can find

Leela Sinha:

these plans online of all these modern housing addition homes,

Leela Sinha:

and they're scattered across wherever there was a GM town.

Leela Sinha:

They built these homes, and the exec the executives would buy

Leela Sinha:

them, or the middle managers would buy them and move their

Leela Sinha:

families in, and and they owned those homes. So I think there is

Leela Sinha:

an opportunity there, so long as we're looking at it as how do we

Leela Sinha:

facilitate giving our people proximity and not how do we

Leela Sinha:

generate another profit center, right? Like that's the

Leela Sinha:

distinction that I think we need to make as you know potential

Leela Sinha:

business owners who are trying to solve a proximity problem via

Leela Sinha:

housing for our people, right? Right. If you take it as if this

Leela Sinha:

is another profit center, you're not you're you're not going on

Leela Sinha:

our best boss's list. It's not happening.

Leela Sinha:

Well, and and it's interesting that you mentioned

Leela Sinha:

that they could buy them, right? Because you know home ownership

Leela Sinha:

is is considered one of the major paths to achieving middle

Leela Sinha:

classhood, and it's one of the biggest challenges right now, as

Leela Sinha:

we can see from all kinds of different political and social

Leela Sinha:

situations. And so, if you're a company that's like, how do we

Leela Sinha:

make it so everybody can own a home? You know, gravity payments

Leela Sinha:

is so complicated, but the original. So, do you know about

Leela Sinha:

the gravity payments thing, Dan Price? No,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: I'm I'm familiar with the company, but

Leela Sinha:

I'm not familiar with what's going on. So,

Leela Sinha:

so Dan Price. A number of years ago, Dan Price

Leela Sinha:

read an article that said that happiness does in fact go up

Leela Sinha:

with income until you hit about $70,000, and now that number is

Leela Sinha:

more like 90. But at the time, it was 70, and and then it sort

Leela Sinha:

of tops out because $70,000 is where everybody's basic needs

Leela Sinha:

are met. You know, you got housing security and recreation

Leela Sinha:

and savings and all the things that you know a 1950s middle

Leela Sinha:

class ideal would have had, and so he actually went to the mat

Leela Sinha:

for that idea that everybody at Gravity Payment should make at

Leela Sinha:

least $70,000 a year.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Okay. Yes, I remember this story. I did not

Leela Sinha:

realize it was that company, but yes, I'm familiar.

Leela Sinha:

Yeah. So, and and it's complicated because it

Leela Sinha:

turns out Dan Price is maybe not the best person in the world,

Leela Sinha:

but this particular move was a really great move. Actually, he

Leela Sinha:

changed so many lives by doing it because he didn't sit down

Leela Sinha:

and say, "How can I bring my employees closer? He didn't sit

Leela Sinha:

down and say, "The cost of living is too high. I should

Leela Sinha:

control their housing. He sat down and said, "How do we bring

Leela Sinha:

these people into a middle class existence? And the answer was,

Leela Sinha:

"Everybody should make at least $70,000 a year. And what he did

Leela Sinha:

was, he took his salary and distributed it down. And so,

Leela Sinha:

when we think about this problem of like pricing and housing and

Leela Sinha:

local community, you know, I think there are a lot of

Leela Sinha:

different ways to solve it, but one of them definitely is build

Leela Sinha:

housing and make it affordable for your employees to buy it,

Leela Sinha:

and make them just they just own it. You don't have a control.

Leela Sinha:

You don't have control over it. You can't kick them out of their

Leela Sinha:

house if they then quit their job. Like none of that. You

Leela Sinha:

can't raise their rent because your profit isn't profiting

Leela Sinha:

enough. You just make them a house they can buy.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yeah. Yeah. the The number I don't remember

Leela Sinha:

where I was reading it, but I was reading something to the

Leela Sinha:

effect of one of the reasons why we're seeing a population

Leela Sinha:

decline and people not having children at at as young an age

Leela Sinha:

is because they're like, well, what are we gonna do? Have it at

Leela Sinha:

mom's house because we don't have we don't have our we don't

Leela Sinha:

even have our own homes yet, right? Right. Like first time

Leela Sinha:

home buyers are like now in their 40s. Like as we see that

Leela Sinha:

happen, there is a natural consequence on the backside of

Leela Sinha:

that. That's like we don't have the safe safety and stability to

Leela Sinha:

have kids or have more kids, so we're not going to, and then

Leela Sinha:

there are consequences. Right. So yeah, I think I think it's an

Leela Sinha:

important thing for us to consider that when we can, as

Leela Sinha:

business owners, when we can not only do business in a way that

Leela Sinha:

allows us to serve our customers and serve them well, so that

Leela Sinha:

we're paid well, right? As an organization, but then to

Leela Sinha:

translate that back to the people who are doing that work,

Leela Sinha:

so that they are taken care of and they can live well, right?

Leela Sinha:

They can do well. Like it, there has to be reciprocity. We've

Leela Sinha:

watched, we've watched C-suite salaries just skyrocket while

Leela Sinha:

other other payroll is on the decline, and and the decline is

Leela Sinha:

getting worse because we're seeing what's happening with AI.

Leela Sinha:

I have a a good friend who said you know her sister's a nurse

Leela Sinha:

and their hospital just decided they're going to cut the entire

Leela Sinha:

education department and most of customer service and let AI do

Leela Sinha:

it and it's like well some. Those people are going to get

Leela Sinha:

called back, right? But we're watching we're watching that

Leela Sinha:

continual drive costs down mode of capitalism, and there is a

Leela Sinha:

consequence on the back side that people aren't going to be

Leela Sinha:

available to buy the things that you want to offer.

Leela Sinha:

Right, right, and that's the thing. So if we look

Leela Sinha:

at what the prices are, the necessary pricing in order to

Leela Sinha:

maintain a business so that everybody gets fair wages and

Leela Sinha:

everybody gets good benefits and everybody, you know, like the

Leela Sinha:

kind of business, if we look at that and we say, okay, this is

Leela Sinha:

what it costs for fish and chips if we're paying everybody like

Leela Sinha:

that, then we have to bring everybody's wages up, so they

Leela Sinha:

can buy those fish and chips.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: That's right. That's right.

Leela Sinha:

And you know, I think more and more cartoons are

Leela Sinha:

starting to go around about like, did you not consider the

Leela Sinha:

fact that if you put people out of work, that they then can't

Leela Sinha:

buy the product that you're trying to sell them?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: That's right.

Leela Sinha:

And there's more and more kind of whining from

Leela Sinha:

the from the corporate overlords that are that's like oh people

Leela Sinha:

aren't buying our stuff as much people don't want to buy our

Leela Sinha:

stuff as much the whole wine industry has been having a fit

Leela Sinha:

because nobody wants to buy their wine anymore and it's like

Leela Sinha:

well one thing is people are drinking less alcohol but

Leela Sinha:

another thing is alcohol is an expensive nice to have and not a

Leela Sinha:

requirement.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yeah, and you know what goes

Leela Sinha:

off your shopping list when you're feeling pinched

Leela Sinha:

at the grocery store? The expensive nice to have.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: That's right. That's right. And I was reading

Leela Sinha:

that there was a company recently who was, and I mean I'm

Leela Sinha:

not trying to go down an AI tangent here, but there there

Leela Sinha:

there was they were basically complaining that they had told

Leela Sinha:

their organization we need to use AI get into it use it as

Leela Sinha:

much as

Leela Sinha:

possible

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: use it as much as possible and they had

Leela Sinha:

blown through their annual budget for tokens in four months

Leela Sinha:

yeah I saw that same article I think,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: and then it was like, "Whoa, we got to back

Leela Sinha:

up the truck! And it's like, you guys should have been making

Leela Sinha:

those decisions long before you told everybody to start using

Leela Sinha:

it, right? Like those those decisions are important to make

Leela Sinha:

ahead of time as you're looking at your business model. Hey,

Leela Sinha:

this new opportunity has fallen into our laps, AI, a new kind of

Leela Sinha:

fish, a new place to fish. Right? It doesn't matter what

Leela Sinha:

the opportunity is. This opportunity has come in front of

Leela Sinha:

us. What are we going to do with it? How does it fit what we're

Leela Sinha:

currently about? And do we even does it even fit with what we're

Leela Sinha:

currently about? And if it if it doesn't, we can let that go, and

Leela Sinha:

yeah, there will be consequences if we don't take take it up

Leela Sinha:

right now, and maybe we'll take it up later, and maybe we won't.

Leela Sinha:

Or yeah, this is like exactly what we need to really do great

Leela Sinha:

work for our people, for us, for the people that we serve. Then

Leela Sinha:

now, how are we going to use it in ways that are effective. How

Leela Sinha:

are we going to put this opportunity to its best possible

Leela Sinha:

use, with the understanding of who we are and what really

Leela Sinha:

matters to us as an organization, right? Not just

Leela Sinha:

oh, hey, here's here's this new thing. Everybody go play with it

Leela Sinha:

and figure it out. Like somebody's going to get hurt. A

Leela Sinha:

lot of somebodies are going to get hurt,

Leela Sinha:

right? And and the sort of the rapid adoption,

Leela Sinha:

right? I've never seen in my, and I've been paying attention

Leela Sinha:

to tech my whole life. Basically, I've never seen a

Leela Sinha:

tech get adopted this fast, this wholesale. Like there's some

Leela Sinha:

kind of urgency. Like, like I don't know, we have to pee. Like

Leela Sinha:

it's just it it doesn't feel safe. It doesn't feel

Leela Sinha:

responsible. It doesn't feel like it makes any sense, and you

Leela Sinha:

know, as a tech company, because I I know which company it was.

Leela Sinha:

As a tech company, surely they should have realized that the

Leela Sinha:

unlimited access was going to go away, and that the model was

Leela Sinha:

going to become token based. The fees were going to be taken.

Leela Sinha:

Like they had to have been able to predict. You

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: can see that in so many other industries,

Leela Sinha:

right? Like you can see it with, right? Exactly. But I mean, you

Leela Sinha:

can see it with, you know, social media, right? Social

Leela Sinha:

media was free, and now you pay if you want the perks. Uber was

Leela Sinha:

lower priced, and then I'm like, you're going to see. You have to

Leela Sinha:

anytime you have a lost leader product to get user base, that

Leela Sinha:

money's got to come from somewhere sometime, and

Leela Sinha:

invariably it's a price hike or it's ads or it's a price hike

Leela Sinha:

and ads in the case of Netflix, right? Like, so you really need

Leela Sinha:

to think about if you're the person creating this, what's

Leela Sinha:

that? What's that end game going to be? But if you're a person

Leela Sinha:

who's utilizing it? What are you doing as a business owner to

Leela Sinha:

insulate yourself from the risk of these things are going to

Leela Sinha:

happen in the future? Right. One of the things that I hear a lot

Leela Sinha:

of people in the business social justice world talk about is

Leela Sinha:

having a business that. You know, can sustain itself and

Leela Sinha:

take care of its people and and all of that. And I think that's

Leela Sinha:

very important. And I also think there needs to be a line item

Leela Sinha:

for saving for the future, just like human beings have us saving

Leela Sinha:

for the future, right? Like if if we're running just above

Leela Sinha:

break even forever and ever, when something happens, we don't

Leela Sinha:

have the cushion to provide for making sure that we can still

Leela Sinha:

pay our people if the income doesn't come in for a little

Leela Sinha:

while, right? And then we have to lay everybody off, right?

Leela Sinha:

Like, so I think we need to remember to have a little bit of

Leela Sinha:

cushion, not a trillion dollars worth of cushion, right? Like we

Leela Sinha:

don't need that much cushion.

Leela Sinha:

Nobody needs a trillion dollars. Well, and the

Leela Sinha:

and the thing is that so often when people start out as a

Leela Sinha:

solopreneur, right? They're like, okay, I have very low

Leela Sinha:

overhead because I have a virtual business, for example,

Leela Sinha:

and so you know, as soon as they start to make a little money

Leela Sinha:

that they can put in their pocket, they're like, "Aha,

Leela Sinha:

we're profitable. Well, no, your salary is a business expense,

Leela Sinha:

and that's really, really hard for people to wrap their heads

Leela Sinha:

around. Like extremely hard. Even people who've been working

Leela Sinha:

in their businesses and on their businesses for 10 years, 15

Leela Sinha:

years, I say to them, "Your salary is a business expense,

Leela Sinha:

and they go, "No, no, I'm I'm profitable because I have a

Leela Sinha:

salary. I'm like, "No, no, you break even because you have a

Leela Sinha:

salary if your salary is adequate. But no, that that's

Leela Sinha:

that's an expense of your business. If your business had a

Leela Sinha:

profit, it would be over and above your salary and expenses.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Right, right. If you had to hire somebody else

Leela Sinha:

to do your job, it would be a business expense. So it's a

Leela Sinha:

business expense for you too,

Leela Sinha:

right?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Right. It's just a different employee's name

Leela Sinha:

on that line item,

Leela Sinha:

right? Yeah. And of course, there's this whole thing

Leela Sinha:

about you're a CEO. Think like a CEO. Don't think like an

Leela Sinha:

employee. But the fact is, we're both,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: right? Right.

Leela Sinha:

I have to do all the things in my business, and

Leela Sinha:

then I have to also, or all the things I don't hire someone else

Leela Sinha:

to do? And then I also have to do on my business. I have to

Leela Sinha:

think strategically. Okay, what am I doing? Am I making a

Leela Sinha:

podcast? What is that podcast for? Why strategically have I

Leela Sinha:

decided to do this and have these conversations? Is my goal

Leela Sinha:

to get the word out? Is my goal to to get someone's attention?

Leela Sinha:

Is my goal you know? And then, if it's not working out as a

Leela Sinha:

business case, change it or drop it because it's a business

Leela Sinha:

decision,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: right? Right, and and I think this is

Leela Sinha:

something that we can see in a lot of micro business owners who

Leela Sinha:

get married to the mode, right? Well, I'm gonna continue to

Leela Sinha:

offer this product because that's what I've become known

Leela Sinha:

for. Yeah, but is it profitable? Is it doing what you wanted to

Leela Sinha:

do? Does it bring you joy? Is it filling your bucket anymore? No.

Leela Sinha:

Why are you hanging on to it? Well, I need the money. Okay,

Leela Sinha:

cool. I hear that, and maybe we need to start experimenting with

Leela Sinha:

some other things so that you can find something that you can

Leela Sinha:

transition to so that you can let that thing go if it's not

Leela Sinha:

your joy zone anymore, right? And as as a micro business

Leela Sinha:

owner, we have the luxury of being able to to do those kinds

Leela Sinha:

of things. It would be really hard for it would be really hard

Leela Sinha:

for a big company like Apple to be like you know we're just not

Leela Sinha:

feeling cell phones anymore, so we're just not going to do that.

Leela Sinha:

Like that's not catch on. I mean, they could, but it would

Leela Sinha:

be it would be huge, right? Plus, the ROI is still there,

Leela Sinha:

right? And they're not they're not doing a whole lot from a

Leela Sinha:

place of what brings me joy and what lights me up. And even if

Leela Sinha:

they were going to say we're not going to do cell phones anymore,

Leela Sinha:

there's this whole ramp down period that they have to go

Leela Sinha:

through. They're not agile enough to just be able to like,

Leela Sinha:

yeah, tomorrow we're not selling those phones anymore because

Leela Sinha:

they got a backlog of inventory. They've got to clear. I mean,

Leela Sinha:

to be fair, Google has tried that on a number of

Leela Sinha:

different products, and it's not. It never goes over well,

Leela Sinha:

but but they sure have. They sure have done it.

Unknown:

Sure. So

Leela Sinha:

so going back to this idea of creating a

Leela Sinha:

sustainable business model with pricing and with economics, like

Leela Sinha:

what are the things that you think people can do to bridge

Leela Sinha:

that gap when they're like, okay, it's going to be 100 bucks

Leela Sinha:

for lunch, and it's not a fancy four course lunch.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Sure, yeah, I think there's a couple of

Leela Sinha:

things, right? I think as as a business owner, you need to keep

Leela Sinha:

listening, right? As someone who was going in for my first

Leela Sinha:

experience and not knowing what to expect, there were some

Leela Sinha:

things that weren't clear, and so I I made that known to

Leela Sinha:

people. I'm like, I'm not not as a complaint, but just like, oh,

Leela Sinha:

hey, you know, it would have been a little more helpful if

Leela Sinha:

this had been a little more clear. So if they're listening

Leela Sinha:

to that kind of feedback and taking it and taking it in and

Leela Sinha:

and really using it, I think that's the first thing. And and

Leela Sinha:

it's not just from your customers; it's also from your

Leela Sinha:

team. It's also from you know the community. If you've got a

Leela Sinha:

very community involved offer, like you have to be listening to

Leela Sinha:

the stakeholders, right, and assimilating that. I think

Leela Sinha:

that's the first piece, and then the second piece is is clear

Leela Sinha:

education, right? Make sure that you're communicating. This is

Leela Sinha:

how that 20% plus tip or not works, right? This is how the

Leela Sinha:

and this is why, right? Let us buy into the story of what we're

Leela Sinha:

becoming a part of. You know, our employees take ownership

Leela Sinha:

because then they have a voice and they get to see how it works

Leela Sinha:

and they experience the consequences of business

Leela Sinha:

ownership and it allows them to really be a part of the entire

Leela Sinha:

ecosystem, right? Like those kinds of things matter because

Leela Sinha:

when we care as consumers, when we care about what we're using

Leela Sinha:

or what we're buying, we're more invested.

Leela Sinha:

Right.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Right. We want to know that we're working

Leela Sinha:

with great organizations. We want to know that the people

Leela Sinha:

that we're spending our money with are doing good things in

Leela Sinha:

the world. We at least want to know that they're not creating

Leela Sinha:

all kinds of harm. Right, I can't tell you the number of

Leela Sinha:

people that shop at various big box and outlets online and who

Leela Sinha:

are like, "Well, unfortunately, I have to shop at the Evil

Leela Sinha:

Empire. Right, like they they predicate what they're saying on

Leela Sinha:

that, and so like because they

Leela Sinha:

know they don't want to be part of that, but but

Leela Sinha:

they feel like they don't have a choice. So the minute you run a

Leela Sinha:

flag up the flagpole and say, "Hey, you have a choice. We're

Leela Sinha:

the choice. We're better, right? And the flag is flapping along

Leela Sinha:

in the breeze, right? As soon as we have that kind of of market,

Leela Sinha:

like you can't you can't pay for that marketing except with your

Leela Sinha:

employees' salaries,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: right? Right, exactly, exactly. And we've seen

Leela Sinha:

through what we saw with Detroit 75 Kitchen, when you are taking

Leela Sinha:

care of your stakeholders, they will take care of you. They will

Leela Sinha:

stay longer. They will serve with smiles on their face. They

Leela Sinha:

will sing your praises. They will talk about what's great

Leela Sinha:

about being a part of your world. They become your

Leela Sinha:

evangelists. Whether they're sitting at the table next to you

Leela Sinha:

ordering for the third time that week, or they're the one handing

Leela Sinha:

you the menu, you you see the energy of those people and how

Leela Sinha:

excited they are to be a part of it.

Leela Sinha:

Yeah, yeah, and that's so. I'm I'm working on a

Leela Sinha:

software project right now, and as we're building the beta beta

Leela Sinha:

group, it's the same thing. You know, we have a Discord for the

Leela Sinha:

beta users, and and it's the same kind of thing where people

Leela Sinha:

are coming in and they're like, oh, what are you doing? And when

Leela Sinha:

they realize that the that the founder developer, which is not

Leela Sinha:

me, that the founder developer is is listening to them and is

Leela Sinha:

like, hey, what do you think about this? And oh, that's

Leela Sinha:

really good feedback. And oh, thank you for catching that bug,

Leela Sinha:

right? They get more engaged. They get more excited. And as

Leela Sinha:

their engagement grows, part of my job is to kind of spot what's

Leela Sinha:

happening in the community and and make suggestions about it.

Leela Sinha:

So as it grows, you know, I saw that a bunch of people were

Leela Sinha:

going to an event, and I was like, we should have a channel

Leela Sinha:

for people who are going to the event, so they can talk about

Leela Sinha:

the event and get excited about meeting in person, right? And

Leela Sinha:

and and creating that kind of joy and excitement and buy-in,

Leela Sinha:

because it feels like a good thing to be part of, is

Leela Sinha:

something you can do with your customers. It's something you

Leela Sinha:

can do with your employees. It's something you can do with your

Leela Sinha:

leadership staff. It's something you can do with everybody. And

Leela Sinha:

then people are like, "I can't wait to talk about this.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: And it doesn't have to be a huge line

Leela Sinha:

item in the budget, right? And I think that's the other thing

Leela Sinha:

that we as business owners are constantly aware of is like,

Leela Sinha:

well, what's this going to quote unquote cost me,

Leela Sinha:

right?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: And you know, there's the old online, well,

Leela Sinha:

what's it going to cost you to not do it, right? Kind of a

Leela Sinha:

thing. But the reality is, when you can find these easy ways,

Leela Sinha:

these low cost, no cost ways to engage community, create

Leela Sinha:

support, show people that you give a damn,

Leela Sinha:

right,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: right, right, it makes a huge difference in

Leela Sinha:

your bottom line. Huge,

Leela Sinha:

and your unique selling proposition is that you

Leela Sinha:

give a damn these days.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yeah, yeah,

Leela Sinha:

like that. That's what's real, is you know people

Leela Sinha:

talk about a USP or a unique selling proposition, which is

Leela Sinha:

the thing that makes your business different from other

Leela Sinha:

businesses doing the same thing or in the same space. And and

Leela Sinha:

the fact is that your USP is that you give a damn. Your USP

Leela Sinha:

is that you care about your staff and you set up structures

Leela Sinha:

for that. Your USP is that you care about your your customers

Leela Sinha:

and you and you set up structures for that, like Leela

Leela Sinha:

Ocean did. Your USP is that you have tried to design a kind of

Leela Sinha:

full life cycle experience that feels like something people can

Leela Sinha:

be proud to be part of. That when they say I'm shopping here,

Leela Sinha:

they don't. They're not like I'm sorry, I'm shopping. Right, like

Leela Sinha:

Don't take my picture walking into the Amazon store, right?

Leela Sinha:

And cameras,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: please, no cameras,

Leela Sinha:

right? And and none of us want to feel like that

Leela Sinha:

ever, right? But we especially don't want to feel like that

Leela Sinha:

every time we, you know, go to restaurant or go grab a quart of

Leela Sinha:

milk or whatever. And so anything that a company can do

Leela Sinha:

to make you feel like. Oh yeah, I shop here, is better.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yeah,

Leela Sinha:

and you know, ironically, no company should

Leela Sinha:

know that better than Apple. Apple had such a following, and

Leela Sinha:

it wasn't because they had good labor practices, but they had

Leela Sinha:

created such a robust identity.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yeah,

Leela Sinha:

and now it's it's kind of gone. Yeah, it's kind of

Leela Sinha:

gone, and and you know I could talk about intensives and

Leela Sinha:

expansives and Tim Cook versus Steve Jobs, but but the way that

Leela Sinha:

a company kind of built does it make sense to say that it builds

Leela Sinha:

on its charisma?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Because

Leela Sinha:

charisma is the thing that we are drawn to with any

Leela Sinha:

organization, right? Or repelled by,

Leela Sinha:

right?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Right. There's a reason why Apple can

Leela Sinha:

hold a trillion dollars in offshore stored profit and not

Leela Sinha:

get the same kind of backlash that this new trillionaire to

Leela Sinha:

the market is getting for being a trillionaire, right? Like

Leela Sinha:

because they've created something with some charisma

Leela Sinha:

that people want to be a part of or have wanted to be a part of,

Leela Sinha:

right? Like they've they've created that equity of goodwill

Leela Sinha:

that you know they're slowly draining, but because they had

Leela Sinha:

it, you want to see you want to see your team win, right? And so

Leela Sinha:

if you have if you have latched onto a personality of a brand

Leela Sinha:

and made that part of your identity, like I'm an Apple

Leela Sinha:

user, you know I'm a Mac, I'm a PC, right? Like when you when

Leela Sinha:

you do that, and and you can see it in politics too. When you

Leela Sinha:

when you latch onto an identity that you tie to a brand, it's

Leela Sinha:

very hard because it's very sticky. It's very hard to

Leela Sinha:

extricate yourself from that identity relationship.

Leela Sinha:

Right.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: And so when you have a brand that is

Leela Sinha:

charismatic in the ways that are attractive to a buyer, they're

Leela Sinha:

naturally going to want to latch on and stay latched because

Leela Sinha:

there's just so much effort to get unlatched and go find

Leela Sinha:

something else. I mean, really, it's it's it's stressful and

Leela Sinha:

frustrating, and decision fatigue is real. And it's like I

Leela Sinha:

I don't know if I've told this story on your podcast yet or

Leela Sinha:

not, but when I was a kid and we would drive from town to town,

Leela Sinha:

my mom would only stop at McDonald's because McDonald's

Leela Sinha:

had clean bathrooms. Until they didn't.

Leela Sinha:

Right.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Anytime we needed to go to the bathroom, we

Leela Sinha:

would always stop at a McDonald. We didn't even buy anything. We

Leela Sinha:

just go in the side door, go the bathroom, and and get up back on

Leela Sinha:

the road, until the day that we stopped at one that did not have

Leela Sinha:

clean bathrooms, and then she was like, "That's it, I'm never

Leela Sinha:

going to go to McDonald's again" because it was terrible, right?

Leela Sinha:

And then it was like road trips got interesting, but the point

Leela Sinha:

being, it was such a hassle to figure out where to go to a rest

Leela Sinha:

area, like to get in on the look. I could just go find a

Leela Sinha:

McDonald's, and I know I'll be fine, until they lost all their

Leela Sinha:

charming equity and charisma equity in one bad bathroom,

Leela Sinha:

right? One bad bathroom spoils it, like ruined it, and so like

Leela Sinha:

that-that's the same thing that can happen in any business. You

Leela Sinha:

create this equity through through your charisma, through

Leela Sinha:

your personality, through your brand, through the ways that you

Leela Sinha:

continue to show up in a public-facing way, and a certain

Leela Sinha:

group of people really latch onto that, and if you're doing

Leela Sinha:

it well and you're doing good, more people come. And if you're

Leela Sinha:

not, you start to drain that equity until there's nothing

Leela Sinha:

left, and then nobody wants to be around you, and they're only

Leela Sinha:

choosing you if you are the only game in town, and they really

Leela Sinha:

feel like they don't have a choice.

Leela Sinha:

Right, right, and and like you, you're using the

Leela Sinha:

language equity, and I, I feel like the thing that's really

Leela Sinha:

under that, especially in a small business or a micro

Leela Sinha:

business, is trust.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yeah, absolutely.

Leela Sinha:

Right, we're talking about trust. You build

Leela Sinha:

trust, and when you build trust, sometimes people will give you a

Leela Sinha:

second chance, but sometimes, like your mom, they'll be like,

Leela Sinha:

"Nope, that was disgusting. I'm never doing that again, and and

Leela Sinha:

when that happens, it it frays. It doesn't sound like fracture,

Leela Sinha:

but it frays the relationship, and so now we're cautious, and

Leela Sinha:

now we're not sure. Now we're looking for other options. Now

Leela Sinha:

we're always looking around, and you know that trust relationship

Leela Sinha:

with with Apple and Apple's products started to fray when

Leela Sinha:

Apple stopped trying to be the cutting edge. People had always

Leela Sinha:

relied on them to help them always know for sure if you've

Leela Sinha:

got an Apple, if you've got the latest Apple product, you are

Leela Sinha:

out front, and that's just not true anymore. If you've got

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: that's right,

Leela Sinha:

you you've got some things, but now just like all

Leela Sinha:

the PC people, you got to be digging through all the stats

Leela Sinha:

and like what does this mean and what does that mean and do I

Leela Sinha:

really have a fancier computer? Did you just put a new case on

Leela Sinha:

my old computer and charge me $3,000? For it, and that

Leela Sinha:

relationship creates fatigue. It creates exhaustion. It creates

Leela Sinha:

it creates instability. And people right now, especially,

Leela Sinha:

desperately want stability. If you can give your customer right

Leela Sinha:

now, if you can give your customer, your client, the

Leela Sinha:

experience of stable, consistent presence with a quality product

Leela Sinha:

and a quality experience, they will collapse in your arms in

Leela Sinha:

relief.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Absolutely, and and it doesn't it doesn't

Leela Sinha:

have to be a high end luxury brand to create that kind of an

Leela Sinha:

experience for your people, especially right now because the

Leela Sinha:

floor is so low, right? It it really amounts to do the things

Leela Sinha:

you said you're going to do and don't change your values

Leela Sinha:

midstream, right? Right. You said you believe in this. Act

Leela Sinha:

like it. Go believe in it. Follow through on it. Yeah,

Leela Sinha:

and don't suddenly change your policies because the

Leela Sinha:

way the political wind blew.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Right.

Leela Sinha:

And and when you provide that you can charge more

Leela Sinha:

money, like those people who were in at local seafood, local

Leela Sinha:

ocean, and and everybody knew their name, and like you can

Leela Sinha:

charge those prices because those people know with

Leela Sinha:

confidence that this organization is not suddenly

Leela Sinha:

going to become a different sort of place from the place that

Leela Sinha:

they trust it

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: to be, right? And they're happy to keep coming

Leela Sinha:

back and supporting them with their dollars and telling other

Leela Sinha:

people about them and bringing their dogs to come sit on the

Leela Sinha:

patio with them and like the whole experience, right? Like

Leela Sinha:

you you get to identify with this great group of people doing

Leela Sinha:

this great thing, and now I'm gonna come a couple times a

Leela Sinha:

week, and when my friends come to town, I'm going to bring them

Leela Sinha:

too because I want them to experience it. Right, like that

Leela Sinha:

infectious contagion of trust, supply and demand. Right, like

Leela Sinha:

we were talking about housing, but we're still talk. We're

Leela Sinha:

talking about supply and demand here. Like as you supply

Leela Sinha:

something great, more people want to come, and that allows

Leela Sinha:

you to naturally increase pricing or availability and or

Leela Sinha:

both in different ways that allow you to continue to do good

Leela Sinha:

and it it becomes this self replicating situation right and

Leela Sinha:

I think that's really valuable

Leela Sinha:

it is and it and improves other things too you

Leela Sinha:

know I'm always on about if you can't pay top financial dollar

Leela Sinha:

but you can pay okay, and then you provide stability and

Leela Sinha:

benefits and flexibility, and you're going to become one of

Leela Sinha:

the most sought after employers in your space. Not because you

Leela Sinha:

have the highest highest numbers numbers every everywhere where

Leela Sinha:

right like not because you've won that war because the only

Leela Sinha:

way, really, to to be able to consistently win that war is to

Leela Sinha:

exploit somebody,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: right?

Leela Sinha:

But because maybe you don't do that, but you make

Leela Sinha:

sure that your employees have really top flight health

Leela Sinha:

benefits and they get all the time off they need when they're

Leela Sinha:

sick, and when their kids are sick, they can use their sick

Leela Sinha:

time for that, and like you start to build this very human

Leela Sinha:

relationship with the human beings that work for you, and

Leela Sinha:

suddenly everybody's like, "Hey, you want to be treated like a

Leela Sinha:

human being? You should go work for them. Yeah, and and you know

Leela Sinha:

that's what Costco does. They don't pay. They pay well, but

Leela Sinha:

they don't pay you know $100 an hour for their floor staff. What

Leela Sinha:

they do is everybody's

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: not making 70 grand a year at Costco, or 90 or

Leela Sinha:

whatever. I haven't done the math. Yeah, I

Leela Sinha:

haven't done the math. There, I think their their

Leela Sinha:

starting wage is 20 something, so it's not terrible, but it's

Leela Sinha:

not 70 grand a year. But people get treated well, and they have

Leela Sinha:

good benefits, and it's a good place to work, and if you ask

Leela Sinha:

your average Costco employee, "Do you like working here?

Leela Sinha:

they'll be like, "Yeah. And if you try to get a job at Costco,

Leela Sinha:

good luck because they don't have openings very often, and

Leela Sinha:

that really is the is the truth, right? Like you, anybody can say

Leela Sinha:

anything on their sales floor, but but when you look at the job

Leela Sinha:

listings and they're like, "Yeah, maybe we'll have a couple

Leela Sinha:

of job listings next year. That speaks really well for it. Yeah.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yeah. And I just want to reiterate

Leela Sinha:

something. As we're going through this series of these

Leela Sinha:

different businesses, there is no one perfect. Like I'm always

Leela Sinha:

going to be able to find something in somebody's business

Leela Sinha:

model or the way that they're doing something. I'm like, yeah,

Leela Sinha:

I wish this was different, right? Like, there's always

Leela Sinha:

going to be that, right? But that's not the goal here. The

Leela Sinha:

goal here is to highlight the things that are being done well,

Leela Sinha:

so that you can then look at that and go, how can I do

Leela Sinha:

something like that, or does it make sense to do something like

Leela Sinha:

that in my organization, and if so, how? Like, what could we do

Leela Sinha:

to turn the volume up on doing more of the right things and

Leela Sinha:

turn the volume down on some of the things that maybe that's how

Leela Sinha:

we got started and we didn't know any better or we didn't

Leela Sinha:

have another way and now we do. Now we've got options, so let's

Leela Sinha:

let's do something different.

Leela Sinha:

Or you know maybe that entire model was a was the

Leela Sinha:

thing we did to get started and now now let's explore like maybe

Leela Sinha:

that we don't know if there's another way but but part of the

Leela Sinha:

goal of this series is to give people ideas to give people

Leela Sinha:

inspiration to to show people okay this organization is

Leela Sinha:

running they're they still exist, and they've done this

Leela Sinha:

thing that everybody says you can't do because if you do that,

Leela Sinha:

business is business, and business won't grow if you do

Leela Sinha:

that, right? To paraphrase the Lorax, and so and so this is an

Leela Sinha:

opportunity to be like, how can you be more Loraxy and less

Leela Sinha:

Oncelery? You know what what do what opportunities are there,

Leela Sinha:

and so yeah, like we're never ever here to to rag on a company

Leela Sinha:

that's operational,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: right?

Leela Sinha:

At least not a small company. Sometimes we will

Leela Sinha:

bring up large companies, but but but but what we see here,

Leela Sinha:

and the reason that we're bringing any company on this

Leela Sinha:

show is because we want we want to talk about what we saw that

Leela Sinha:

we loved, and what we see that we love at Local Ocean is this

Leela Sinha:

robust, cooperative, employee-oriented model that

Leela Sinha:

makes sure that people get a living wage, that makes sure

Leela Sinha:

that the cost of doing business isn't passed on to the

Leela Sinha:

employees,

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: right?

Leela Sinha:

But is instead passed on to their very happy

Leela Sinha:

customers.

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: Yes.

Leela Sinha:

Any final words?

Leela Sinha:

Lisa Robbin Young: I think the thing that is probably the most

Leela Sinha:

impactful thing. Like if if you don't remember anything from

Leela Sinha:

this episode, and there's lots to remember, right? It's like

Leela Sinha:

it's important to listen, right? Like to to really pay attention,

Leela Sinha:

especially if you're a smaller micro business owner. It's

Leela Sinha:

really easy to get parochial in your viewpoint of what's going

Leela Sinha:

on in your business and forget that there's this whole world

Leela Sinha:

beyond you. And if you're paying attention, and I know there's

Leela Sinha:

lots to pay attention too, and if you've decided what your

Leela Sinha:

listening outposts are going to be. You know which team members

Leela Sinha:

I'm going to listen to, which customers I'm going to listen

Leela Sinha:

to, which community leaders am I going to listen. When you've got

Leela Sinha:

those listening stations, you have an opportunity to then

Leela Sinha:

assimilate that information and make better decisions for the

Leela Sinha:

organization about how you want to continue to be showing up and

Leela Sinha:

how you can really provide value in ways that are beyond product

Leela Sinha:

for dollar value, right? And and I think that that's that's

Leela Sinha:

something that more businesses can do, and and frankly should

Leela Sinha:

do.

Leela Sinha:

Yeah, and and to build on that, you know, one of

Leela Sinha:

the ways that you can make sure that you do that because running

Leela Sinha:

a business is complicated. There's a lot going on, but one

Leela Sinha:

of the ways that you can make sure you do that is building

Leela Sinha:

into your calendar semiannual or or every quarter, you know,

Leela Sinha:

quarterly audits where you sit down and you just kind of think

about:

Are we listening to our people? Who's at the table?

about:

Who's not at the table? How do we decide if there should be a

about:

table, or if we should just throw out the table and start

about:

over with some other model, right? Or prop the? Do we need

about:

to prop the door open because not enough people are getting

about:

in? You know, asking some of the more progressive questions about

about:

the conversations that you're having at a leadership level

about:

about who's getting served by your organization and who's

about:

serving in your organization, and whether everybody's needs

about:

are getting met all the time, which is my my favorite soapbox.

about:

So, thank you so much. This has been a pleasure. Where can

about:

people find you if they want to find you? You

about:

Lisa Robbin Young: can always find me at lisa robin young.com.

about:

Robins get two Bs, and then I'm on various social platforms at

about:

lisa robin young,

Leela Sinha:

and I'm at Alessiano Consulting. I'm told

Leela Sinha:

that I need to change what my business is called. Happened

Leela Sinha:

just this week. I'm at Alejiano Consulting. I do coaching and

Leela Sinha:

consulting for small businesses and other organizations, and for

Leela Sinha:

leaders of those small businesses and other

Leela Sinha:

organizations. So you can definitely have a conversation

Leela Sinha:

with me. There's a big book a call button. Just don't worry

Leela Sinha:

about anything else on the page if you don't want to. Just hit

Leela Sinha:

book a call, and and we'll get on the phone and we'll have a

Leela Sinha:

conversation. And we will see you in two weeks. Thank you so

Leela Sinha:

much for joining us. Thank you so much for listening. This has

Leela Sinha:

been Power Pivot Season Three, a podcast about using the power in

Leela Sinha:

your business for good with host Leela Sinha of the Intensives

Leela Sinha:

Institute and Alejiano Consulting. With Zim, you heard

Leela Sinha:

co-host Lisa Robin Young. The podcast is produced by Leela

Leela Sinha:

Sinha with support by William Jameson. To support our podcast

Leela Sinha:

and other related work, please consider joining our Patreon at

Leela Sinha:

Patreon. Slash Leela S.

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